The VIBE interview VIBE: So, what's up with this album?
Janet: It took me thirty-one years to do this album-my entire life. I had to run grab a tape recorder because I couldn't write as fast as it was coming to me. A lot of it is about pain. I don't know if it's something that we developed as a family, but I developed this way: If I was ever in any kind of pain, I'd find a way to brush it aside. Eventually it caught up to me. Actually, I should say the album took 26 and a half years, because there's one incident that I won't go into that happened to me as a kid.
VIBE: When you were four and a half? You're not trying to go into it at all?
Janet: No.
VIBE: Have you reached out to a professional?
Janet: René helped me a lot. Then I was in the desert one day [on a trip with René], and I met this guy. He's in his fifties, and he's a cowboy, and he's full of wisdom. The way that I see him is as my Obi-Wan Kenobi.
VIBE: We should all have one.
Janet: Yes. The day our paths crossed, he looked at me and told me about me.
VIBE: Did he know who you were?
Janet: Yes. He's not psychic. He saw me. I felt like I was ass-out, butt naked. was sitting in front of this man who I had just met, like, a half hour ago, crying my eyes out. There are times when you don't feel deserving of what you have. Feel fraudulent. For me, it has to do with my past and my childhood.
VIBE: Should another girl have the life that Janet had?
Janet: I wouldn't want them to.
VIBE: Was it the stage and the cameras? Your family?
Janet: It was everything. I started working when I was seven. When I was ten, I had a serious full-time job. I had a contract with a studio, and I had to be there on time every single day.
VIBE: This is when you were Penny on Good Times?
Janet: Yes. I enjoyed it-but were there days [when] I was lonely? Hell yeah! I missed my family. I missed Michael. He was doing The Wiz. We had a hiatus coming up, and I remember asking mother if I could go to New York and visit him because I missed him so much. I went to Studio 54 for the first time with Michael.
VIBE: You went to Studio 54 when you were 10?
Janet: The only kid sitting up in the place, seeing people pretty much butt naked. I was loving it.
VIBE: You had a life, Janet.
Janet: I was having a great time. But I could have swung in another direction. I could have gone to drugs, or drinking. There was cocaine everywhere back then. Someone could have said, "Hey, try this."
VIBE: You don't regret your life, though?
Janet: I don't regret it at all
VIBE: Are you feeling competitive with Michael?
Janet: Yes.
VIBE: Is it hard for you?
Janet: Because we're brother and sister?
VIBE: Yes.
Janet: No. Because it's business. I love him. He knows that.
VIBE: Right...
Janet: I know that he loves me.
VIBE: Was that hard for you to come to?
Janet: That was very hard for me to come to, and I didn't realize how-how do I say this correctly-how much business it was with he and I until a few years ago.
VIBE: It's hard to say this because he's your brother.
Janet: Go ahead, say it.
VIBE: Michael is a legend in his own time. There will never be another Michael Jackson.
Janet: Right.
VIBE: I just don't know if there is a Michael Jackson right now.
Janet: Right.
VIBE: The Jackson right now is Janet. I'm wondering how you deal with that.
Janet: It's hard. It's very hard for me. That voice inside my head starts talking. I ask, why me? What did I do to deserve this?
VIBE: To deserve all this adulation?
Janet: Yes. I called my mother and asked her. She said be thankful. So I try not to question it. I used to do that all the time because I felt guilty.
VIBE: For being a winner?
Janet: I felt very guilty for being a winner when maybe someone else in my family wasn't doing as well as I was.
VIBE: That must have been hard.
Janet: There are lots of times where I would ask, God, why can't you just make us all be on the same level? Why is one of us excelling more than the other?
VIBE: Did you feel this way before Control? You know, when Michael was Mr. MTV and Mr. Thriller-did you wish everybody could be "even" then?
Janet: No!
VIBE: You wanted to be a star?
Janet: Yes! I wanted to be a star! But I was so happy for Michael. I remember when he did Thriller-he had a serious sound system in his car. He played the album for me there. I'd never heard anything like it.
VIBE: How old were you?
Janet: A teen-ager. I was so stoked for him.
VIBE: Does he get excited about your work?
Janet: From what I hear, yes he does.
VIBE: From what you hear? Have you guys had any good talks recently?
Janet: [No response]
VIBE: I guess I'm asking, are you friends right now?
Janet: Are we friends? Yes. Are we enemies? No. Have I spoken to him recently? No, I haven't. It's kind of embarrassing. I hate to say how long it's been since I've even seen my brother-two years. But he's on tour. I haven't even seen my new nephew.
VIBE: Janet!
Janet: I know. It's horrible. I know.
VIBE: Are you guys going to be all right?
Janet: Yes. It's nothing like that. It's just that, when everyone was invited to the ranch to meet [his new son] Prince, I was doing the album, and there was no way I could even come home for the day.
VIBE: That's kind of deep.
Janet: It is. I mean, the last time I saw my brother and spoke to him was when he was in the hospital. He was supposed to do the show for Pay-Per-View or HBO or something-it was the night of the 1995 Billboard Awards, and I was supposed to receive an award that night. I didn't even go accept my award. I went straight to the hospital.
VIBE:You haven't seen him since then?
Janet: I haven't seen him since then; I haven't spoken to him since then.
VIBE: Did it have to do with that "Scream" single? I thought your voice was mixed down kinda low. I was wondering why I couldn't hear you.
Janet: I wondered why you couldn't hear me either. We went back [after the session] and put my vocal up, and it sounded better. That's pretty much all I can say because I don't know what really happened. I wasn't there.
VIBE: You were singing when you were in the booth, right?
Janet: Oh yes. I recorded my part in New York, and I didn't like it. So I sang it again in Minneapolis, at Jimmy and Terry's studio where I felt comfortable. [Michael] was there too because he wanted to re-sing his as well. He re-sang his, but his first pass at it in New York was the shit. I don't know what happened, but I felt I was mixed down too. It sometimes happens, you know. I wish they would have pushed it up a little bit more. I think "Scream" was the best video out. But it didn't have anything to do with me being in it or anything like that.
VIBE: What about your self-esteem? Most people assume that you always feel absolutely perfect.
Janet: No-are you kidding? That's the furthest from the truth. I have never felt attractive.
VIBE: To whom? To men?
Janet: Period! Just period!
VIBE: What about after you lost the weight back in 1990?
Janet: Did I feel better about myself after losing the weight? Yes, I did. Did I still feel ugly? Yes, I did.
VIBE: People didn't tell you were ugly when you were little?
Janet: No. That's just the way I felt when I looked in the mirror. I was shocked when René and I got together.
VIBE: What brings you joy, then?
Janet: René brings me joy; work brings me joy.
VIBE: You've been with René for a long time
Janet: Since 1986. We were friends for, like, four or five years before that. Like, best friends.
VIBE: You guys have a good relationship?
Janet: We have a very good relationship, and it's due to us being good friends in the beginning. It's weird to kiss your friend for the first time. It's also hard work-
VIBE: To keep a relationship going?
Janet: We work at it.
VIBE: Did I see you at the Essence Awards with a diamond?
Janet: Everyone thought it was an engagement ring. It was a birthday present.
VIBE: Do you like not being married?
Janet: I'm not afraid of marriage. I just like where we are right now.
VIBE: [Phone line beeps] Janet, hold on for one second.
Janet: Sure. It's okay.
VIBE: I just told my cousin Khalief that I have Janet Jackson on hold. I've got a few family issues tonight.
Janet: Don't worry. I can understand family issues.
VIBE: What was it like working with Q-Tip? Do you like his voice?
Janet: I love his voice. I know René is probably sick of me saying God, I love Tip so much. He was real quick in the studio.
VIBE: So you, Tip, and Joni Mitchell-
Janet: I spoke to Joni over the phone and told her we used her sample. Everyone kept saying don't even bother. I called her up myself, told her how much of a fan I was and how my brother Randy introduced me to her work. And she said we could use it! I was stoked.
VIBE: What's your favorite Joni Mitchell song?
Janet: "Beat of Black Wings." I love it. As a matter of fact, Joni called and asked me to be on her tribute album.
VIBE: So you did that one-the "Wings" song? How did it work out?
Janet: I like it a lot. I just hope she does. You just don't touch greatness. It's like, Leave it there because you can't go any place with it. For her to ask me was such an honor.
VIBE: Speaking of how you feel about not touching greatness, I'm wondering how come you're not working with Puffy? How come you're not working with the fabulous Babyface?
Janet: It's a loyalty thing, for one. Jimmy and Terry and I work well together. There's still more within us to give. Though that's not to say that if I were to do something with Babyface that I would be unhappy with Jimmy and Terry. But if it's not broken, why fix it?
VIBE: When was the last time you had a big laugh?
Janet: When I get tired, I get so giddy I start crying. I laugh so hard, I can't breathe; and then that becomes funny to me. Just last month. René was pretending to be an actor in a film, he had a cigar in his mouth. It was so funny, I couldn't stop. On top of it, we had wine. Wine makes me giddy too. Just a couple of sips and-
VIBE: You're gone?
Janet: I'm a lightweight is what they tell me. When I take a couple of sips-you know how it normally goes to someone's head? With me, it goes in the opposite direction.
VIBE: [Laughs] So it's on after that?
Janet: I'm telling you. Literally, it takes two sips and, oh my God!
VIBE: You're looking for René?
Janet: Somebody! I'm just joking.
VIBE: I'm curious where sex fits into your life now.
Janet: Are you kidding?
VIBE: Do tell.
Janet: [Laughs] Please, could I not?
VIBE: So is sex about bondage and domination for you now? Are you and your lover playing fun games with power?
Janet: [Laughs] You mean, like pain? Are we into pain?
VIBE: Yes, are you into pain, Miss Jackson?
Janet: No, no...but I'm told I have a high tolerance for pain.
VIBE: How would you know?
Janet: From the things I've gotten pierced, I suppose-my nipple, my tongue.
VIBE: Okay, then. In some of your photos you look strong and in control, but there's one picture of you where your wrists are up. I'm wondering how you got to that place.
Janet: It's a part of me. On this album, you hear that. For instance, about [the song] "Rope Burn," someone said, "You know, that's a painful thing." But it says "soft rope burn"-nothing to really harm a person. I'm getting deeper into my fantasies, into what I like and don't like-that's the other side of this album. It all goes back to feeling special. There's a song on the album called "Anything." It's about pleasing a man. There are people who are into pleasing others, and people who are into being pleased. Some nights you feel one way; some nights you feel another. Pleasing someone else and seeing them enjoy-you become aroused.
VIBE: What's your idea of ecstasy? Is it the old candles and flowers?
Janet: It's all that. There's a point where you could go too far... I'm not into that real painful stuff.
VIBE: The idea of a velvet rope to me is, like, you're constrained, but nicely.
Janet: Exactly. It's soft. Instead of it being crass, there's still something classy about it. The candles, the flowers, the wax, the ice...
VIBE: The whole nine?
Janet: Yeah. Trying new things.
VIBE: How did you come to name the album The Velvet Rope?
Janet: That's what I've been exposed to all my life. That's what I still see every single day in my life.
VIBE: Which is what? Pain blanketed with a nice little covering?
Janet: That need to feel special. There are two sides to the velvet rope: those who want to be on the other side and those who are on the other side.
VIBE: It depends where you're standing.
Janet: Take a nightclub: those outside of the club, waiting to be chosen-they wish they were inside. Once inside, they think they're the shit. But there's another velvet rope-the V.I.P section. They wanna be in that section, but they can't be.
VIBE: Does anyone get to that point where they're finally on the right side of the velvet rope?
Janet: Where the grass is greener?
VIBE: I guess you never get to it.
Janet: I don't know. We're all born special, and somewhere along the way, we lose knowing that. We want that specialness. When you feel special, you don't need a rope to validate you.You know who you are.
VIBE: You're always on the right side if you have your own rope.
Janet: That's where I'd like to be.
VIBE: Can you imagine a day when you put out a record and people aren't interested?
Janet: It can very well happen with this record. The applause will die, it happens to every single person in this business. It's like in my song "You." Does what they think determine your worth? By getting this applause, are you worthy? Without the applause, are you worthless? And that's what a lot of artists have trouble with. Maybe their music is not what it used to be. Maybe people aren't paying as much attention to them as they did in the past. But those things happen, and you have to understand that you're special and it's okay. I'd rather for people not to know what I am, what I have, or who I am, and to accept me for me.
VIBE: Do you ever have that option?
Janet: Sometimes I do, sometimes I don't.
VIBE: Have you gone through things with friends, where you realized they were just being your friend because you were Janet Jackson?
Janet: Hell yeah! Or just being my friend because I lived right down the hall from my brother Michael when I was younger.
VIBE: How do you know when somebody's really your friend?
Janet: I think the truth comes out; you can't fake it forever.
VIBE: Is there any place you can walk the streets and no one points at you?
Janet: [Pauses] So far it hasn't happened. So I don't know if there is.
VIBE: I'm just curious because-
Janet: Would I like it?
VIBE: Would you?
Janet: I can't have my cake and eat it too.