(Deposition Exhibit No. 1 marked for identification.) BELIA JIMENEZ-LORENTE, a witness in the above-entitled action, having been duly sworn, deposes and says as follows:

EXAMINATION BY MR. OUSKY:

Q. Ms. Lorente, I want to ask you a few questions, and most of my questions will be focused upon the petition for an order for protection that you filed with the Court. So I'd like to start by showing you what has been marked as Deposition Exhibit 1. Do you recognize that as a petition that you filed with the Court as part of the domestic abuse action?

A. Yes, it looks like it.

Q. And I want to start asking you questions starting from 3 of that exhibit, if you would refer to that page. And in paragraph 10 on 3 of that exhibit is where you describe for the Court the instances in which you believe Mr. Johansson, your husband, has committed an act of domestic abuse. Is that correct?

A. Yes.

Q. And I want to start with the first instance you describe which is on September 2nd of 1995. Do you recall what instance I'm talking about?

A. Yes.

Q. And just to help me get the specifics regarding that instance, what time of the day did that occur?

A. Exact time I couldn't tell you. Sometime between 8 and 9 maybe. Maybe a little earlier. I'm not sure. The kids were still up so it was before 9.

Q. Was it in the evening?

A. Yes, it was early evening, I suppose.

Q. And you were at your home at that time?

A. Yes.

Q. And just for the record, your home is located where?

A. 6000 Jonquil Lane North, Plymouth.

Q. And who was all in the home at the time?

A. The children, my husband and I.

Q. And were any of the children sleeping?

A. No, the boys were downstairs watching TV and Rebecca was with me in the kitchen.

Q. And when you say downstairs, are you referring to a basement area?

A. Yeah, family room. Not really basement but downstairs. Q- Okay. And the kitchen, in any event, is at a level above that --

A. Half a level. It's a split level.

Q. I see. Okay. And you and Rebecca, your daughter, were in the kitchen, the two boys were down in the lower-level family room?

A. Mm-hmm.

Q. I need a yes or no just for the record.

A. Oh, I'm sorry. Yes.

Q. And did Mr. Johansson just come home or when did he enter the scene?

A. No, he was in the home. I had been to the Minneapolis Institute of Art and then having a burger or something. I don't remember exactly what. I think it was a hamburger. And then I came home and that's when it happened.

Q. Okay. And you arrived home somewhere between 8 and 9 P.M.?

A. Sometime between 8 and 9, yes. I don't recall the exact time. I don't -- you know.

Q. And it sounds like from your description that there was some kind of argument that preceded the acts that you've described?

A. Well, there wasn't really much argument in the sense that an argument is held between two people. My husband started shouting at me right away, yelling at me and being very hostile, I suppose.

Q. Can you tell me exactly what he was yelling, as well as you recall?

A. Yes. The first thing that he yelled at me several times was to get out of the house, just simply get out. Go away. Get out.

Q. Did he begin yelling that as soon as you entered the house?

A. As soon as he saw me, yes. I had been in the kitchen for three minutes, I suppose. Rebecca heard me so she came up. I took my shoes off, we always do that, and hanged my jacket or something and he came up a few minutes after I had been in the home.

Q. I assume the kitchen is right at the entrance to the house?

A. Yes, it's at the entryway.

Q. And he came up, probably being downstairs with the boys?

A. Yeah, from the family room or from his computer because he's usually locked in the basement working.

Q. And he began yelling to you to get out of the house?

A. Yes.

Q. About how many times did he yell that?

A. I don't know. It's hard to say. Maybe eight, nine times. I didn't count them.

Q. I'm just trying to get an ide

A. I understand. Did you say anything back to him during that time?

A. Yes, I said, no, I'm not getting out of the house. This is my house.

Q. Did you raise your voice at all?

A. No. I was very calm and very shocked. I suppose that's why I didn't raise my voice, because I was so shocked I didn't know what to do.

Q. Shocked because that sort of thing just never had occurred before?

A. No, I didn't expect it that day. You know, other times I've been ready for it, but that day I didn't expect it.

Q. That particular day you didn't think it was going to happen?

A. No.

Q. Did he say why he wanted you to leave the house?

A. Yes, because I had been out with without his permission, according to him.

Q. I see. And just to take a step back, how long had you been away from the home on that day?

A. Let's see. I must have left -- you know, it's so hard to give you exact times, but my guess is around -- between -- sometime between 4 and 5 because my daughter was up from her nap and Axel was down for his.

Q. And this is around 4 or 5 in the afternoon?

A. Yes, approximately. I can't tell you the exact time, but it's just my guess.

Q. Did this occur on a Saturday?

A. Yes.

Q. And you had no classes on that day. Is that correct?

A. No, no, I have no classes on weekends usually.

Q. And Axel was home because he doesn't work on Saturdays typically, correct?

A. He works from the home. He works with his computer. He doesn't go to the office necessarily, but he keeps on working there.

Q. And you had left at 4 or 5 p.m. that afternoon?

A. It's my guess. I mean, I don't remember. I don't remember exactly.

Q. And the dispute centered around he thought you had gone somewhere where he thought you shouldn't have gone, is that --

A. Well, I left him -- I didn't want to wake him up because he's usually grouchy, so I left him a note saying, I'm going to the Minneapolis Institute of Art. And the only reason why I was going is because I had just read in the newspaper that morning that a former professor of mine was exposing there, Lance Kingland, and I wanted to see his work. He's a very good painter. I admire him very much. And I know he's not interested in these kinds of things so I just decided to go on my own. I left him a note. I explained to the boys, well, I'm going to the museum and I left papa a note so just make sure that he sees it when he wakes up and I should be home around 8 I think I told them.

Q. Did you keep that note? Do you still have that note available?

A. No. Why would I?

Q. I don't know. I just wondered whether you might.

A. No.

Q. And you don't recall when the note said you'd be home?

A. I don't recall. I just -- it's not -- I don't know. I just don't keep these things to memory, I suppose. I don't see why I should.

Q. Okay. Now, you indicated that your return was somewhere around 8 or 9:00, but you said you don't recall exactly when?

A. No, I don't recall. I know it was before 9 because the children were up and they're usually in bed by 9. At least that's the time I usually put them in bed.

Q. Is it possible that the children were up later that night?

A. I don't think so.

Q. And you base that just based upon the fact the children were up, you didn't look at the clock and you don't recall otherwise what time it was?

A. No, I looked at the clock later on that evening and it was like 10:15 or something like that. By then Axel had already left. So that's why I'm assuming, you know, that it wasn't later than 8 or 9 I got home.

Q. Okay. After these instances where Axel was telling you to leave and you said you wouldn't go, what happened next?

A. Well, he kept on shouting obscenities at me, and Rebecca was in the kitchen with me and I kept on trying to calm him down and say, take it easy, you know, let's put the kids to bed and talk later. And he just, he kept on.

Q. Okay. You said yelling obscenities. Can you give me an example of the types of things he was saying?

A. Sure, if you like to hear them. Whore, cunt, slut, things like that.

Q. Okay. Did you call him any names?

A. No.

Q. So if Axel indicates that you called him names during that, he's lying or recalling incorrectly or --

A. Well, he's either lying or he doesn't remember, I suppose.

Q. So you feel quite sure you never called him any names during that?

A. No, I didn't.

Q. Did you raise your voice during that instance?

A. No.

Q. So you just remained calm through all of this?

A. I was very scared, but I was calm because my daughter was there.

Q. How long did this go on before you decided to take your daughter up to bed?

A. This went on I suppose for about an hour, an hour and a half. I kept on trying to get Rebecca out of the kitchen but Axel wouldn't let me.

Q. What did he do to prevent you?

A. He held Rebecc

A. First he picked up Rebecca, then he put her down, then he stopped me from going out of the kitchen with her, physically stopped me. He blocked the kitchen door, which is not a very big door. And he just kept on telling -- accusing me of all sorts of things and then telling Rebecca that she'd find out what kind of a whore mother she had when she grew up because he was going to take care of telling her.

Q. Now, did this yelling continue for that hour, hour and a half that you've described?

A. Well, it was pushing and shoving and physical abuse in between.

Q. Okay. Did the boys come up at any time during this?

A. Yes, they did. They came up the stairs and they stopped at like midway. I heard them saying, what's going on. And I just told them, get down, this is nothing. Papa and I are just talking. Just get down. I don't know if they got down or not because I couldn't see them. I'm hoping that they did.

Q. You mentioned that you were fearful during this. Did you make any effort to either leave the house or call the police or call somebody for help?

A. No, I was trying to calm Axel down and I was trying to calm my daughter down, who was by then very upset I suppose you could say.

Q. Okay. You didn't just take your daughter or go to is the neighbors or anything like that?

A. He didn't let me.

Q. So he was standing in that doorway, too?

A. The kitchen doorway is like this wide and it goes into the hallway.

Q. Okay.

A. So I couldn't get out of the kitchen basically.

Q. Is there only one doorway out of the kitchen?

A. Mm-hmm.

Q. Okay. And so he stood, during this hour, hour and a half, he stood in the kitchen doorway?

A. Not all the time. He came into the kitchen, out of the kitchen. I sat down at the table. At times I was sitting down at the table because I thought that if I sat down he would sit down maybe. And he did that a couple of times and got up again. It was -- I don't know. I mean, I don't have a photographic memory.

Q. Sure.

A. And I'm not even sure about how long all this took either. I'm just guessing.

Q. I understand you're just guessing, but I'm just trying to get an idea as to whether he stood in the doorway the whole time or whether some of the time he was doing something else.

A. Is this very relevant? I mean --

Q. I'd ask that you just answer the questions.

A. Oh, I'm sorry.

Q. I want to try to understand what went on and what occurred. I'm just trying to get a sense of why you didn't leave the room or call somebody or try to get some help. And you've indicated, I believe, if I understand you right, is because he was standing in the doorway. Is that correct?

A. Mm-hmm, at times. And at times we were sitting down and at times he got up and --

Q. So when he wasn't blocking the doorway why didn't you go get help or call a neighbor or take your daughter with you and go to a safe place?

A. I tried to take her several times. I didn't think that she was in any physical danger from her father.

Q. Okay.

Q. Okay. So he eventually agreed to leave on his own?

A. Well, he didn't agree. We didn't discuss that very much. I was crying by then because he had pulled my hair and shouted at my face and pushed me down several times.

Q. Okay.

A. He told me later on that he left because he was afraid of what he could do to me.

Q. Okay. But in any event, you didn't see any reason why you should leave?

A. Not the way he was asking me to, no.

Q. Okay. So even if you could have left, you just didn't see any reason to at that time? Do I understand you correctly?

A. well, I wouldn't put it that way.

Q. Okay. How would you put it?

A. Well, he was asking me not asking me, demanding of me to get out of my house and I said no.

Q. Okay.

A. So I don't know.

Q. All right. So you could have left, but you chose not to. Is my understanding right?

A. The first 10 or 15 minutes that's what he wanted. After that, he just decided, I suppose, that it was nicer to insult me.

Q. He was nicer to insult you?

A. It was nicer to insult me, or he felt better about doing that.

Q. I see. So he wanted you to leave initially, but after a while he wanted you to hang around so he could insult you. Is that --

A. Mm-hmm.

Q. I need a yes or no.

A. Yes. I'm sorry. I keep on forgetting.

Q. But during any of that, you could have left but you didn't really think you should have to, right?

A. Well, I wouldn't have left my children in that house with him in that state to start with.

Q. You had just indicated, I believe, under oath you didn't think your daughter was in any danger, correct?

A. Yeah, while I was there.

Q. Okay.

A. I didn't know what could have happened to them if I had left.

Q. If I understand though, didn't you just testify that you didn't see any reason to bring your daughter with you --

A. While I was there and she was with me, I felt confident that he was not going to do anything to her. I didn't know what was going to happen if I left.

Q. If you'd left, then you'd have to take your daughter with you then?

A. I would have taken the three children with me, yes.

Q. And you never made any effort to do that, correct?

A. No, I didn't.

Q. Now, apart from the ~- we'll get into the allegations about physical harm in a minute, but have we covered everything regarding the verbal stuff, or is there something verbal that we've left out?

A. Well, there were shouts and screams and all sorts of things. And I recall very clear one thing that he did say which really hurt me very, very much. I was trying to calm him down, saying, okay, let's talk about this. We know we want a divorce. Let's just do this decently. Let's not bring up all -- and he just told me that I could never divorce him because I could never find a job. The only kind of job I could find would be using my crotch. I don't know why that very instance stuck with me so clearly, but that's the only clear thing I remember besides all the insults and --

Q. Okay.

A. I guess -- I don't know.

Q. Okay. So what you've described so far including this recent thing, I assume that was the worst of it in terms of the verbal insults?

A. To me it was. Maybe to another person it wouldn't have been, but to me it was.

Q. Sure. Anything else significant that was said verbally during that hour, hour and a half that you were together?

A. I wish I had a tape, but I didn't.

Q. But anything else that you would remember that was significant in your mind?

A. Not very much. Threats. Lots of threats. All kinds of threats. I'll remove your green card. I'll destroy you and everything you ever loved. I'll get your teachers from school into trouble. I'll take the children with me. This is just a commonality. This is what he's been doing for the past couple of years Or three, so I guess --

Q. And I know you described these threats later on and I want to ask you specifically about those, but anything else other than what we've talked about so far?

A. I don't think so.

Q. Okay. Let's talk about what happened physically. At what point did he first have any physical contact with you during this instance?

A. Well, let's see. From the time that we were in the kitchen, he pushed me several times, just pushed, you know, like a shoulder push like that (indicating). Then I sat at the table, at the kitchen table. He grabbed my hair by the back and he lifted me by my hair from the chair.

Q. When you were sitting down?

A. Yeah. Shouting at my face, he was an inch away from me. His face was an inch away from my face. And I remember that very -- I remember the smell of alcohol in his breath very clearly. And I remember the fear of not knowing what he was going to do next.

Q. Okay.

A. He let me go, slammed me back on the chair and kept on shouting right at my face very close, maybe 4, 5 centimeters.

Q. Okay. And so he grabbed you by your hair when you were in a chair, lifted you up so you were standing, didn't lift you off the ground but lifted you into a standing position? Is that what you're saying?

A. Mm-hmm.

Q. I need a yes or no.

A. Yes. I'm sorry.

Q. And then had you set back down in the chair. Is that correct?

A. Yes, pulled me back down.

A. Mm-hmm.

Q. I need a yes or no.

A. Oh, I'm sorry, Mr. Ousky. Yes.

Q. we all do that. It's just in depositions I need it clear is all.

MS. WOLD: Take a breath, take a swig of coffee and just keep that in your mind.

THE WITNESS: Okay.

MR. OUSKY: I understand. I'll help remind you.

BY MR. OUSKY:

Q. Any other physical contact other than what you've just described?

A. Besides the pushing and the hair-pulling and stuff, no.

Q. Just besides what you've just described?

A. No.

Q. And did this physical part of the event, did that occur during the first part or middle or towards the end?

A. Well, let me think, because you're setting this up like a movie or something and it's hard to place things on a time basis. I think it was around the middle.

Q. Okay.

A. That's what I think, but I'm not really sure.

Q. Okay. And after that instance, did he calm down some or what did he do?

A. After that he sat down. When he saw me crying, he sat down across the table from me and he started yelling again, but this time he was sitting down and kind of like slamming on the table and things, but he was not doing anything to me physically. Rebecca was by me and she was holding my leg because I was crying and she was very afraid. Yeah, it must have been about the middle of this whole thing.

Q. Okay. So after that you were crying and he sat down and it got a little quieter? Is that kind of what you're describing?

A. Well, he didn't get quieter. He kept on shouting, but at least he was still for a minute, besides the pounding on the table. He was not moving around the kitchen or being in the doorway or anything.

Q. I see. I don't know how good you are with directions, but in your kitchen, on which direction, north, east, south or west would the door be?

A. You've been talking to my husband, I can tell. No, God didn't give me a sense of direction. So I have not the slightest idea where north or south or east are in my kitchen.

Q. Okay.

A. But you're very welcome to come any time and check it.

Q. All right. I appreciate that.

A. Really, you are.

Q. I appreciate that. I'll try to, without using directions then, just try to get some perspective.

A. It's a round table. You know, it's a round table like that. I'll show you.

Q. If you can just sort of draw --

A. Imagine this is my kitchen. Then this is the hallway. And this is the entryway. There's a big bay window here. And we have counters here and here and here and all over. And so the table is here. It's a round table. He usually sits there and I usually sit here, and that's the other chairs and Rebeccals baby chair. So I was sitting here. That's me and that's Axel.

Q. And where is the door in and out of the house?

A. Here. There's a front door and there's a garage door. This is the hallway.

Q. Okay. And where is the door to get down to the family room?

A. It's here. There's not a door. It's a big open staircase.

Q. Okay.

A. I can't believe you haven't been to my home for coffee or something. He's so rude, but anyway.

Q. Okay. Anything else that occurred on September 2nd that was at all significant?

A. No. He left.

Q. Do you know what time it was when he left?

A. I want to say around 10:00, but I don't know. Because I looked at the clock, I remember I looked at the clock and it seemed to me a little bit after he had left and it was 10:1S. I know because -- I did that because the boys were still up downstairs. Stefan told me, w@hy were you shoutinv. Why was papa angry? What were you doing? You know, all that kind of stuff. And I said, we just had a discussion. And he asked me, where's pap

A. And I said, well, he just left, he went to take a walk or something. So then I put them to bed, finally I put them to bed. And it must have been 10:30 by the time I was done putting them to bed, maybe 20 to 11. And Axel had left within the half hour previous to that.

Q. Did you have any discussions with him about whether he was going to come back that night or --

A. No, he didn't say where he was going. He didn't say anything. He just slammed the door and left.

Q. And when did he return?

A. I think it was after 1:00 in the morning.

Q. Okay. And did the two of you sleep in the same room that night?

A. No.

Q. But he remained in the house after that date, correct?

A. I'm sorry?

Q. He remained in the house after that day for, say the weeks following that day?

A. Yes. We both did, yes.

Q. Did you call anybody that night after he left?

A. No.

Q. Why not?

A. (Indicating).

Q. I need a yes or no.

A. Why not, and you need a yes or no? Yes.

Q. I'm sorry. You shook your head. I need a verbal answer is what I meant.

A. I'm shaking my head because I don't know why I didn't call anybody. I didn't know who to call, I suppose.

Q. Were you at all afraid that he might come back and be harmful to you?

A. Yes, I was. I slept with my daughter that night.

Q. And you didn't know to call the police or call a friend, none of that occurred to you?

A. I didn't want to call the police.

Q. Why is that?

A. Same old, same old. Family matters are solved in the family, within the family.

Q. Okay.

A. And I didn't want to bother friends late at night to start with, and I couldn't think of anything that could do anything for me at the time. You know, it's not --

Q. Sure. And you didn't feel like the danger was great enough where you'd have to do something that extreme?

A. I didn't think so. I was ready to call the police if he came back in the same state he had left. I was ready to do that because I was afraid, but I didn't know if he was going to come back at all. So I locked the doors and when the kids were down and okay and Rebecca was calmed down, I decided to read and go to bed, and finally I ended up with her because I couldn't go to sleep anyway, so --

Q. You said you locked the doors, but he had a key though, correct, so you knew he could get back in the house?

A. Well, I suppose, because he got in the house so I suppose he had a key.

Q. Sure.

A. I didn't think much about him having a key or not. It doesn't cross my mind to worry about if he had a key or not at that point.

Q. Okay. And when he came back to the house at 1 A.m., did you have any conversation with him that early morning?

A. No.

Q. So the next time you spoke

A. You know, this 1 A.m. I'm not so sure, okay? It was probably around 1, but I can't assure you of the time.

Q. So you were probably sleeping and you heard the door or heard him come in?

A. I was awake.

Q. Okay.

A. It just didn't occur to me to look at the time. Maybe it was 1, 1:30. I don't think it was later than that.

Q. How did you know it was him?

A. Because I heard the door.

Q. And you just assumed --

A. You don't have people visiting at 1:00 in the morning.

Q. You knew it wasn't a burglar or some intruder, it had to have been him?

A. Well, the dog didn't bark.

Q. Okay.

A. We've got a very loud dog who barks to strangers.

Q. And because the dog didn't bark, you felt comfortable that it was him?

A. Well, yeah. I didn't feel comfortable, but I knew it was him.

Q. Okay. And then you just went to sleep?

A. After a while I went to sleep. After I heard him going to sleep I went to sleep.

Q. You heard him go to sleep?

A. Well, I heard him go into the room and brush his teeth and all that kind of stuff and go to bed.

Q. Did he sleep in the room next to you?

A. Mm-hmm.

Q. I need a yes or no?

A. Oh, yes.

Q. And did he sleep in a room with one of the children?

A. I was sleeping in Rebeccals room with Rebecca.

Q. And he slept in the bedroom?

A. Our rooms are next to each other.

Q. Okay. Did the two of you have a conversation the next morning?

A. No.

Q. I assume the next morning was Sunday, correct?

A. Mm-hmm.

Q. I need a yes or no.

A. Yes.

Q. What happened, I guess, that following Sunday morning, September 3rd?

A. Nothing. He wouldn't talk to me very much all day until, I think I recall early afternoon. He usually is very prone to the silent treatment, just not talking at all for days in a row until he decides it's time to. And then he gave me three options to this whole separation deal.

Q. And what three options did he give you?

A. Okay. Well, the first one was for me to stay home, don't go to school. I couldn't finish school. I couldn't see any of my friends because he didn't like them. I could have only the friends that he chose me to have. And I was to be at home with the kids and with him at all times, and that's it. The second option was that he would take the kids with him to Sweden and forget that I ever existed and that he would take care of the kids and everything else, and -- except for me, of course. And then the third option was that I would take the children, but then he would leave and not pay child support or anything like that. If I wanted to get the kids, then I would be solely responsible for them forever.

Q. Okay.

A. So those were his three options.

Q. And what was your response to those three options?

A. I told him I needed some time to think it over.

Q. And did you then think over those options?

A. Later. I was trying to act as he wanted me to, following the first option, until one day I woke up and I looked at myself in the mirror and I didn't know who was there.

Q. And what day was that?

A. I want to say three or four weeks after that incident happened, but I'm not so sure.

Q. Okay.

A. It was a while. It was two or three weeks maybe.

Q. So sometime in September, apparently?

A. The end of September it could have been, yes.

Q. So between the time you had this discussion about your options until the time you looked in the mirror and saw a different person, was there any other discussion about what you might do, separate, divorce, any of that?

A. He didn't talk to me.

Q. You said you wanted to think about the options for a little bit. Had you been thinking about it those three or four weeks?

A. Yes.

Q. And so you didn't respond or go to a lawyer or do anything in response to those proposals?

A. No.

Q. Why is that? You just really didn't know what you wanted to do with the marriage? Was that kind of what was going on?

A. I didn't know which of the options was least bad, because obviously none of them were good. So I waged one against the other, you know, one against the other and I didn't know what to do.

Q. During that time did you consider moving out of the house?

A. Yes, I did.

Q. Okay. Did you ever at any point move out of the house?

A. No, I didn't.

Q. Why not?

A. Well, first of all, I talked to Linda about doing that, about moving out of the house to be safe and start the divorce procedures. And she told me, first of all, that it would look as I was abandoning my children or something if I didn't take the children with me. At the time, as now, I don't work. I don't have any kind of money. He emptied the bank accounts in the middle of the summer or early summer. And I had no way of finding a place to live or no way of feeding the kids or anything like that if I took them with. And if I left them, even for a short period of time until the divorce was filed and all that, then it would be against my own interest.

Q. I see. So this is stuff you talked about in 0 September and you were thinking about it?

A. Mm-hmm. I think it was September.

Q. Okay. So you decided, because of that, it wasn't probably a good idea to leave the house at that time. Is that correct?

A. I didn't want to leave my children.

Q. So you had had -- at that point you'd had legal advice about what your options were and so on?

A. Mm-hmm.

Q. I need a yes or no.

A. Yes.

Q. And you had had a chance to describe to people, your attorney and so on, what had happened on September the 2nd. Is that correct?

A. Yes.

Q. When this day that you woke up and saw a different person in the mirror and stuff, was that sometime in the end of September?

A. Sometime. I want to say after the 20th sometime. I don't know. I don't keep dates, Mr. Ousky.

Q. I understand.

A. I have a very bad memory for dates and times and things like that. I remember people though.

Q. You remember people, but dates and times are kind of fuzzy?

A. Yeah.

Q. Okay. What was significant about that day where you started to look at things differently though, whatever day that was?

A. I don't know. I just woke up and I realized that I couldn't live like this anymore, that I had to take some action, do something. That this was -- I didn't deserve this kind of life and neither did my children.

Q. And what action did you decide to take?

A. Well, it took me a while. I went to Home Free, a shelter for battered women to seek some advice there, and there I talked to Nancy. She told me, you know, that this was very clearly abuse and, you know, all my options about the different actions that I could take. I talked to Linda.

Q. Okay. But you had talked to Linda previously, but you went back and talked to her again about some of this?

A. Well, I went to Home Free, too, because --

Q. I see.

A. -- it was a shelter very close to home for battered women, so I wanted to see what they had to say there.

Q. When did you first go to Home Free?

A. I don't remember the exact date, but I'm sure you could find out through them.

Q. Again, sometime in September?

A. Yeah.

Q. And when you say you went there, you didn't stay there, you went there just to talk to some people?

A. Oh, yeah.

Q. Just to get some advice about what to do?

A. Yeah, I got a folder with information and all these kinds of things.

Q. And they told you this was abuse?

A. Yeah.

Q. And they told you how to file an action for domestic abuse, I'm sure?

A. They told me if I wanted to, I could do it right then and there.

Q. Okay.

A. And how much time I would need to do it, you know, like a couple of hours. It was free of charge. Same information I suppose they give everybody.

Q. Sure. So as of September you knew that you could file this domestic abuse action for free and have him removed from the home and so on. Is that correct?

A. Yes.

Q. Why didn't you at that point?

A. Because I've been together with this man almost 11 years and it's a very hard step to take.

Q. So you wanted to see if you could try to reconcile the marriage?

A. I wanted to see if I could be certain that he would not harm me or the children when I filed for a divorce without having to file for the order for protection. But the way he was treating both me and the kids was not -- did not incline me to think that way. So I decided after a lot of thought that I would be safer and the children would be safer if I did this.

Q. Okay. So initially you didn't want to file it because you -- let me be sure I understand this right -- that you wanted to see whether you could file for divorce without doing the order for protection. Is that what you're saying?

A. No. I knew I could file for divorce without the order for protection. One thing doesn't have much to do with the other. I didn't know if I was going to be safe filing for divorce with him in the home because he had threatened me so many times with taking the children away, having my green card revoked, things like this that scare me very much.

Q. Sure. Okay. So those concerns were on your mind and you didn't know whether --

A. obviously, yes. I'm alone here with three young children. Alone.

Q. Okay.

A. So it's not very easy to take decisions or make choices just like that.

Q. Okay. And so at that point, the time you were thinking, September, October, early November, you're just not sure whether it's going to be safe or not to start a divorce, correct?

A. Yes.

Q. What caused you then after September 2nd, what is it that he did to now convince you that it was unsafe?

A. His constant threats, his drinking.

Q. Now, tell me the most significant instance that happened after September of -95 that he did that caused you to think it's not safe?

A. Well, I talked to him -- I don't remember the date exactly, but I talked to him about, okay, let's just get a divorce. I don't -- I'm trying to recall my exact sentence, you know, to make it as real as possible. I told him I want a divorce. This is what I want. I want to keep the children. I want to stay in the States. I want to finish my degree. And after I finish my degree I will be capable of supporting them and you won't have to worry about them economically if you don't want to, but I do need this year until I graduate, you know, I was talking about graduating in June, actually maybe the end of January next year, but I don't know yet, so around June next year, 97 that is.

Q. Okay.

A. Then I said, I remember telling him let's just be as decent and as humanly stable as possible when we do this and think about the children before we think about our anger and our problems and all these kinds of things because, you know, my major concern has always been trying to make the children not suffer.

Q. Sure.

A. I know they already are, but at least try to avoid as much as I could of this mess. And he just said no. And he threatened me again. He said if I did something that he would sue my professors at school, two of them specifically. He would not pay my school, which he stopped doing that I think it was October, the last September, the last time he paid, I think, because then I had to ask for a Stafford loan to cover the rest of the school year, what is not covered by my scholarship and my grant. I had to ask for money for that.

Q. Okay.

A. He just said that he would absolutely not give me any money. That he would make my life miserable because he had the power and the money to do it and I had nothing.

Q. Anything else that was significant that happened after September 2nd of 95 that led to your decision?

A. Well, this all happened several times. I mean, it was not just one conversation. We had several. And during this time for almost a month I just tried to talk to him.

Q. Sure. And when you talked to him, he made, as I understand, basically three threats. One was to sue your professors. The other one was to not pay for your schooling. And the third one was to not give you money?

A. Take the children away.

Q. Okay. And a fourth one

A. That was the first one.

Q. Oh, okay. And then take the children?

A. Yeah.

Q. Okay. So those were

A. And revoke my green card. This is something that he enjoys doing very much. I wonder if he's found out that he can't do that? I hope he has.

Q. So now we're up to basically five threats then?

A. Yes.

Q. That he made these five threats over and over?

A. I mean, he doesn't go, threat number 1, threat number 2, you know.

Q. I realize he wouldn't number them. I'm just trying to number them so I can be clear as to what's all occurred.

A. Yeah, but these are things that he kept on saying all the time. The only time he talked to me was to say things like this. And that went on for a month until I just

Q. Other than the five threats which I understand were repeated, did anything else happen after September of 95 that was significant?

A. Well, I couldn't go out with friends. He had the boys spying on me, my phone calls, everything. Every time I got a phone call, I had either or both of them there asking me who are you talking to, what are you talking about and things like that, until one day I finally asked, what's with you guys? Well, papa told us to listen to whom you were talking to.

Q. I see. Okay.

A. He wouldn't -- he would do the grocery shopping himself because he would not give me the money to go and do it on my own. So I made lists every Saturday and he would go and do the grocery shopping. Sometimes he would buy what was on the list, sometimes he wouldn't. I had no choice about that either.

Q. All right. So again, trying to cover what happened of significance after September 2nd, we have the five threats, the boys spying on you and him doing all the grocery shopping. Was there anything else?

A. Well, doing the grocery shopping is not a threat. It's kind of nice, if you think about it.

Q. But I take the reason you were complaining about it was that that was an example where he controlled all the money?

A. Yeah. You know, it's just a matter of showing -- listen, you know, you can have your groceries or not depending on my mood. He drinks very much, and especially during that month he drank constantly.

Q. I'm going to ask about the drinking in a minute here, but I just want to see if I've covered all the instances that occurred since September 2nd so we make sure we understand all that. I know there's nothing else in the petition, but I just want to see if anything else occurred to you since then?

A. You know, I don't recall this as a movie or anything like that. I wish I did to help you and to help everybody but I don't. If I remember something else later on, I can always call you and let you know.

Q. But as we --

A. Is that proper?

Q. But as we sit here today and in your discussions

A. Right now, no.

Q. -- you can't think of anything else?

A. No, I can't.

Q. -- after September 2nd? Okay. Let's talk about the drinking a little bit because it sounds like you really want to talk about that. When did you first start getting concerned about Axells drinking?

A. I've been concerned about Axel's drinking for, I think since the minute we met.

Q. And what was the minute you met? Can you give me a year on that?

A. I can give you the exact day and the time,

Q. Okay.

A. Because I was actually getting off a plane and I remember the day and the time.

Q. All right. Please give me that.

A. That was January the 23rd, 1985 at 2.35 P.M.

Q. And that was the minute you started worrying about his drinking?

A. No.

Q. So you didn't literally mean the first minute you met him?

A. No. I mean the first time we -- actually when we moved in together, a couple of months before we got married.

Q. Okay. So early on you started worrying about his drinking and you've worried about it ever since?

A. I wasn't worried sick at first because we do drink a lot in Spain, socially drinking. It worried me that every time we had to go out or whatever, we were newly wed or just going out with friends and stuff, we had no kids or anything, and we had a lot of fun. Fun, I mean going to a lot of places and doing a lot of things together, besides working together. We worked for the same company. That's how come we met. But anyways, I noticed that he drank very early in the day, which is something that is not acceptable, in my society anyway. To drink before noon is considered very, very, you know

Q. What would he drink before noon?

A. He would drink a beer or I think you call it a martini. Martini Rossi with vodka or gin in it. A Vermouth we call it in Madrid.

Q. What else did he do that caused you to be concerned about his drinking?

A. Well, every time we had to go out, he usually had one or two drinks before we went out. And I'd tell him, well, what do you need the drinks for, you know, we're going out to have dinner or whatever. And I've always been concerned about drinking and driving even before it was such a big deal.

Q. Okay. Has he ever had any DWIs or alcohol-related arrests?

A. Well, you don't have a lot of the DWIs in Spain, to tell you the truth. The day that we married I remember very clearly that we were all very drunk and we were all driving in Axel's Renault Fuego at the time. He was driving and we were all drunk, at least eight of us in the car. And the police stopped us and they knew we were drunk, but it was our wedding day so they let us go.

Q. I see.

A. And that's --

A. Yeah. it's not like you get married every day, you know, us Catholics. We can't even get divorced.

Q. But just so I'm clear on the answer to my question, in the three countries that you've lived in, were there ever any arrests or run-ins with the law of any sort --

A. No, in Sweden --

Q. Excuse me. You have to let me finish.

Q. Oh, I'm sorry.

Q. We'll have trouble with the transcription. Were there any arrests or any kind of run-ins with the law related to drinking at all?

A. No. And I was going to say that in Sweden we took it very seriously because the laws in Sweden about drinking and driving are very tough. And when we went out, we usually took turns. When one of us wanted to have a glass of wine or something like that, the other one would drive. And it always worried me that he would still have to have the one or two drinks before we left, even though maybe it was his turn to drive. So most of the times I ended up driving. Because that was okay because I didn't have a car and it was fun to get his car every now and then.

Q. Okay. But he would have one or two drinks on those occasions?

A. Well, plus whatever he drank at the party or wherever, the place we went to. which is, believe me, a lot.

Q. Other than what you've described so far, what has caused you over the years to be concerned about Axel's drinking?

A. Well, I don't know. As the years have gone by, at first he was like -- well, he would drink a couple drinks on weekends. He likes to drink whiskey and Tia Mari

A. He likes to drink brandy. And I like to drink brandy myself, so I'm not a prude in that sense, but things were getting out of control the past few years because he would not stop at one drink, he would not stop at two drinks, he would not stop at three drinks. And I didn't feel so bad if we were home, but still I didn't like the idea of him drinking all the time. He'd come home from work and the first thing he did was, you know, pour himself one or two or three drinks before dinner even, or held work up late on the computer and he was working the computer drinking whiskey or whatever he wanted to drink until 3 or 4 in the morning. And I don't think that -- my father is an alcoholic, you know. I don't think it's very healthy to do that.

Q. Okay. Is your father a recovering alcoholic or practicing?

A. No, he was an alcoholic. A practicing alcoholic if you want a name for it.

Q. Okay. So I take it from that you've got a lot of information about alcoholism?

A. I know the signs. I guess you could say that.

Q. Okay. You've read some of the literature, maybe attend Alanon, anything like that?

A. one of my social classes we dealt with alcoholism as part of a social problem, and I did get some information about it. My sister and my brother and 1 have tried -- I've been trying for a long time to get my father into therapy. He doesn't admit to his problem, so the same way Axel is taking, he doesn't admit he has a alcohol problem and I assume he does.

Q. I take it then that you have at different times talked to Axel about your --

A. Yes, I have, many times.

Q. Has anyone else ever expressed to you or to Axel that they believe he has a drinking problem?

A. Neighbors say a lot of times, when we socially entertain them, neighbors and friends, closer friends, I can't believe how much he drinks, you know, and how can he drink so much and not just pass out? He's got a very high tolerance. That's another sign.

Q. Neighbors around here or in one of the other countries?

A. oh, all of our neighbors I suppose. The ones around here. The ones in Texas.

Q. Can you give me the names of some of them around here who have complained about his drinking or commented?

A. Well, it's not a complaint but shown a concern.

Q. Okay. Shown a concern, commented, any of those things?

A. Well, let's see. Gary and Jerelyn from across the street.

Q. We need a

A. I'm sorry. Gary and Jerelyn, J-e-r-e~l-y-n.

Q. Their last name?

A. Helmberger, like hamburger.

Q. And where do they live?

A. They live right across the street from us. And I mean, we're not best friends or anything but we've socialized and we've gone camping together and stuff like that.

Q. Do you know their phone number by any chance?

A. Cinco cinco siete -- 557-0900. I've got to think in Spanish. I've got to think numbers in Spanish. Isn't that weird?

Q. What --

A. Curt and Kelly Raymond also.

Q. Curt and Kelly Raymond, where do they live?

A. They used to live right across the street from us in Edina for about a year when we lived there.

Q. What street in Edina?

A. I forget. I forget my address in Edina.

Q. That's okay. We can find out.

A. How could I do that? oh, well. I'll think of it. My brain thinks on its own sometimes. Very helpful when you're studying.

Q. What other people in this --

A. I mean, around here, I don't know about his wor -- the people he works with because I don't -- I haven't had much contact with them. I don't know if anyone is concerned or expressed --

Q. Other than the four people you've mentioned can you think of anybody in the Twin Cities area who has commented at any time about his drinking?

A. Well, a lot of my friends from school have at times said, oh, I can't believe he drinks so much.

Q. Can you give me some names?

A. You know, this feels like when you were getting out communists in your -- I'm sorry. I like history. Let's see. Mikhail Koulikov. He's a Russian student.

Q. I'm going to have to have you take a shot at spelling the last name if you can.

A. I can write it for you, if you want.

Q. Well, you can go ahead and write it, but then you need to spell it for the court reporter.

A. Okay. Mikhail has an H there. That's it. K-o-u-l-i-k-o-v.

Q. Do you know how Mikhail can be reached?

A. Well, you could find him at his home, but I don't his number starts with 778 but I would have to get that to you because I don't know the ending of his number.

Q. What other friends have commented to you.

A. Phil Ristow.

Q. I need a spelling on the last name please, if you can.

A. R-i-s-t-o-w.

Q. That's another student that you attend school with?

A. Yes, that's been home every now and then. Laura Perez. She's from Mexico. She's also been home very often.

Q. I'll need a spelling on that. Just take a shot a it.

A. Can't you speak Spanish? I can't believe it. Half of the people in this country are going to speak Spanish by the year 2000.

Q. But for now I guess I'll have to have you spell it for me.

A. You've got four years to learn, catch up. Okay. Laura Perez, Laura is like Laura, like your Laura in English. And Perez is her last name. That's P-e-r-e-z like in Zachary. Monica Bejar-Latonda . I love this. I'll spell it for you. Monica is her first name, just like English, Monica Bejar-Latonda is her last name, and I'll spell that for you. That's B-e-j-a-r hyphen L-a-t-o-n-d-a.

Q. Okay.

A. These are the people who come to my home more often who have expressed at one point or the other not concern but, you know, oh, he drinks a lot, comments like this, you know.

Q. Okay. So let me go back just a couple then. Gary Helmberger, what was his comment?

A. I don't know. I mean exactly?

Q. Even roughly. You remember him commenting. What do you remember him saying?

A. Well, it's like, oh, gee, you can surely put the drinks down and stuff like that. I don't know.

Q. He said --

A. I can't believe you can drink so much vodka, or I can't believe you'd like that stuff, referring to whiskey and Tia Maria, so much.

Q. So he said these things to Axel?

A. Yeah, and to me while we were --

Q. He said to you, I can't believe you drink so much?

A. No, to Axel.

Q. Okay. In your presence?

A. Yeah.

Q. And so he would say those kinds of things. And Jerelyn, what, same kind of things?

A. Same thing. Jerelyn doesn't drink a lot of alcohol so she was always teasing Axel in the way he could put his shots down and stuff like that.

Q. Other than the kind of teasing at parties about I can't believe you like that stuff, did anybody ever talk serious about being concerned about Axells drinking?

A. I talked seriously with Jerelyn once because she's also concerned about Gary's drinking habits.

Q. I see.

A. But we never really did anything about it, I suppose. or not enough anyways.

Q. Did she express to you a serious concern about Axells drinking?

A. We were comparing stories I suppose you could say, husband stories, you know. That's what middle class housewives do.

Q. Okay. Apart from that, did anybody else ever express a serious concern to you about Axells drinking?

A. we never really were in a place long enough for anyone to become seriously concerned except for myself, of course, because we were together all the time. We've traveled so much and lived in so many different places that -- this is our record breaking, you know, staying in Minnesota for such a long time and still we've moved twice in this area.

Q. Over the years, you and Axel have either individually or together been in counseling from time to time. Is that --

A. In what? I'm sorry.

Q. In counseling?

A. Counseling, just once, yes.

Q. When was that once?

A. Let's see. That was in Sweden and it was 19, I want to say 89.

Q. Do you remember the name of the counselor you saw?

A. Are you kidding me? A Swedish name at the point where I didn't speak any Swedish. No, I don't remember.

Q. How many times did you see that counselor?

A. Three times, maybe four.

Q. This was, if I'm recalling correctly, after the suicide attempt?

A. Yes.

Q. And was this counseling court ordered or was it voluntary?

A. I don't think it was -- I think it was not court ordered but suggested, I suppose by the court.

Q. Did the counseling help you make progress in any significant area?

A. Well, it would have if Axel would have stuck to it, but he didn't. so

Q. So it was really Axells responsibility to follow through with that one?

A. They I can't recall all the stuff exactly, and at that point I my Swedish was good but not perfect. I recall that the doctor suggested and some representative, some social worker I think it was, but I don't recall that, suggested that we go into counseling together because we had marital problems, and that everything that had happened was related to those problems and we should solve the problem from the beginning, something like that. And so we started. The first session we went together, the second session we went together, the third session I appeared on my own because Axel never showed up. I think it was the third, or the fourth, and after that he didn't want to go anymore. He stated that the counselor always took my side.

Q. Did you continue on individual counseling at that time?

A. No.

Q. Did you feel like you had any need to continue in individual counseling?

A. I would have liked for both of us to continue.

Q. I understand that. But I mean, apart from that --

A. Individually, no. I recognized the problem as a couple problem, not as my problem.

Q. So I take it from that nothing really got resolved in those counseling sessions?

A. No, it didn't.

Q. Did you ever do any counseling on your own to help you resolve some of the personal issues related to the suicide attempt?

A. No. (Brief recess.)

Q. I want to return now to Exhibit 1, the petition, and talk to you about the second instance that you describe which is --

A. The door locking, yes.

Q. Yes. Did anything occur during that instance other than what's described on Exhibit 1?

A. No, not really. I went out to my tertulia, which is a monthly meeting that I hold with some of my school friends. T-e-r-t-u-1-i-a. It's.a Spanish word for like a book club or something, you know, something like that, in case you wanted to know. But anyways, I meet with some friends from school, once -- the first Friday of every month, and we get together and just talk about whatever, poetry, philosophy, anything and everything I suppose. And that day I was going out -- I went out to that, and he knew it, you know, because he was supposed to baby-sit the kids while I was gone. I hate when the husband takes the kids, they always call it baby-sitter. You know, like if it wasn't their job, too. But anyway, so I did that. I went out and everything was fine. We had had another fight a couple of days before that and we were not on very good terms, but nothing out of the ordinary.

MS. WOLD: Excuse me. Would you ask the question again? I'm not sure that she's being responsive.

MR. OUSKY: Well, she's describing other things, but maybe I can save some time by honing on anything of significance here.

1. You know, it was a normal day. And I went out and when I came back I was locked out.

Q. I'm going to have to ask you to wait for the question so that we can kind of move along here.

A. Sure.

Q. There wasn't any threat or any physical harm that occurred during that June of 195, incident, correct?

A. No, not during the day.

Q. Okay. Are you saying there was some physical harm that occurred around that time that you didn't describe in your petition?

A. No. I mean, it was a normal day. I was surprised to come back home and not being able to get in.

Q. Okay. Now, I want to ask you now about the summer of 1991 when you were pregnant with your third child. You describe an instance in which you said Axel grabbed your neck and smashed you up against the outside of the house.

A. Mm-hmm.

Q. Can you describe precisely what Axel did physically during that instance?

A. Well, he grabbed me by the neck. He lifted me up by the neck, and I was -- I don't know how far away from the siding of the house, maybe like from where you're sitting to the wall or something like that, and he backed up to the side of the house and he just put me there.

Q. Okay.

A. My brother~in-law stopped him from going further, I suppose.

Q. Your brother-in-law was present during all of this?

A. Yes, and so was my sister.

Q. When you say he picked you up, you don't mean off the ground?

A. Yes, he did.

Q. So he, with one hand on your neck, lifted you completely off the ground?

A. Pretty much.

Q. Did he or didn't he? I guess I just need to know.

A. Well, I don't remember walking if that's what you mean.

Q. So he had his was it his right hand or his left hand?

A. It was his right hand.

Q. So he had his right hand on the front of your neck?

A. Yeah, my throat.

Q. And he extended the arm and lifted you off the ground?

A. Mm-hmm.

Q. Is that what you recall?

A. Pretty much.

Q. Again, I just need a yes or no.

A. Yes. Yes.

Q. And once he had lifted you off the ground, he then what, pressed you against the house?

A. Mm-hmm, against the siding, yes.

Q. And how long did that continue?

A. I couldn't tell you. A couple seconds, threes four, five. I don't know.

Q. Were you injured?

A. Well, I was partly choked, but

Q. Did you have any marks or bruises?

A. I had finger marks for a few days.

Q. Did you take any pictures?

A. It's not something you want to put in your album, is it?

Q. Well, did you call anybody or --

A. No, my sister and my brother-in-law were there and so I didn't feel like I was alone.

Q. Did you do anything about that instance?

A. We talked about it several weeks after it had happened when he decided it was okay to talk again.

Q. Okay. So I take it from that you're saying that Axel kind of responded by being silent for a while, for a few days. Is that --

A. Yes.

Q. I want to have you now describe the December of 1988 instance in which you claim Axel hit you across the face with his fist when you were seven months pregnant. Do you recall that instance?

A. Yes. It was the first time.

Q. If you can, just describe specifically what physical contact actually occurred?

A. I was sitting on the couch. I was about seven months pregnant and I was tired. I was just sitting there. Alexander had given me a hard day because he was in his terrible twos by then. And he was jumping around the couch. My friend, Maria Jose, was visiting with me. She was just sitting there. We were talking and Axel came in after work, possibly around 9:00 or something at night, and he sat there with us. And Alexander was jumping on and off the couch and I had told him several times before not to do that, you know, because he was jumping on top of me. And I had problems with my pregnancy so I was on medication and stuff, and I didn't want to be hit on the stomach. But he did, he jumped from the arm of the couch right on top of my big belly. And I pushed him off. It was like a reflex, you know. I just pushed him and he fell with his little butt on the floor, and before I knew it, I was getting up to pick him up and Axel slapped me or punched me across the face. I don't remember if his hand was open or closed. I think he slapped me with the backside of his hand very hard across the face and I fell on the couch.

Q. Were you injured?

A. No. I mean, not very, not very much. My lip bled a little bit, but --

Q. Did you go to the doctor?

A. No. I left the house right away. I went for a walk.

Q. And again, I'm not trying to trip you up on this, but now --

A. Oh, I didn't even --

Q. -- you're certain that Stefan was there?

Q. Okay.

A. Thanks for pointing it out anyway.

Q. You're welcome. That was the last instance of domestic abuse that you describe, and we'll get on to the threats in a minute. But I assume when you completed this petition you were truthful in every way that you could, other than any inadvertent error like we've described, but you were truthful?

A. Yes. Yes.

Q. And I assume you described everything you could think of?

A. Yes, at the time. Just like I'm doing now, everything that I can recall.

Q. Since that time have you been able to recall any new instances that you didn't think about back then?

A. Several things.

Q. Okay. Let's start with the most serious thing that you now recall that you didn't remember in November.

A. Well, there were things that I didn't recall and I recall now and there were things that I did recall because they're very hard to forget but I didn't want to talk about when filing for this order.

Q. Okay. Let's talk about them beginning with the most serious one.

A. I have to take a deep breath here.

MS. WOLD: Excuse me. Could she have an opportunity to perhaps list these?

MR. OUSKY: Sure.

BY MR. OUSKY:

Q. If you want to list them first and then go back through them, I don't have any problem with that if that's easier for you.

MS. WOLD: What would be --

MR. OUSKY: I guess I just want to get clear on what we've --

THE WITNESS: I don't want to talk about this, but I know I have to. It's just that I need to relax for a minute.

MS. WOLD: Can you take a few minutes to think about that then?

A. Okay.

MS. WOLD: It's all right.

BY MR. OUSKY:

Q. Take as much time as you need. I don't want to rush you.

A. I'm sorry. I don't like crying.

Q. Don't worry about it.

A. My makeup goes all over the place.

MS. WOLD: Take your time.

1. Okay. 1989, three days before I tried to commit suicide, my husband raped me twice.

BY MR. OUSKY:

Q. I assume then some kind of force was used?

A. Yeah.

Q. I realize this is difficult, but was there any kind of weapon involved?

A. No.

Q. When you say he raped you, you refused sexual contact and he insisted on it?

A. Yeah.

Q. Did you make an attempt to escape?

A. Yes.

Q. And are you saying that he physically kept you from escaping?

A. Yes.

Q. By use of his arms just by being stronger than you?

A. Yes.

Q. Did you report that to anyone?

A. No.

Q. Was that the only time that that's occurred in your relationship?

A. Yeah.

Q. The two times, was it within a week or

A. It was the same day.

Q. Okay. Do you have any idea what would have led to this occurring on one particular day and not at any other time?

A. Yes.

Q. What was that?

A. We were trying to work on our problems, and about a month before he had taken off and left me in Sweden, again with, no money, but this time he had taken the children away with him. I flew to Spain finally because a friend let me borrow some money for a one~way ticket. He took my airplane ticket with him, too, so -- and my passport. So I finally made it to Spain after about a week and when I got there my mother was very worried about what was going to happen to the children. She is a very devout Catholic and, you know, Catholics and divorce or separations don't match together very well. I guess one of the reasons also why I've been waiting all this time to take this step. But she was very concerned and all she wanted was for us to solve it, you know, to get back together, to try and work hard. And my mother was at the time sick with cancer and I didn't want to upset her or anything like that so I just decided, okay, well, maybe this is marriage, you know, maybe you do have problems and you solve them and you just keep on and maybe there will be better times. So we kind of got back together. We went back together to Sweden. My brother came with because my mother wasn't sure -- she was afraid of what Axel could do. And she saw me helpless and alone in Sweden and

MS. WOLD: Do you want to ask some specific questions?

MR. OUSKY: Well, I can here, but she's actually in the direction of what I wanted in terms of a description.

BY MR. OUSKY:

Q. Just so I understand, I'm trying to ~- I guess the question was what you believed led to and caused this to occur on that particular day and not at any other time and I think you're getting to that, I assume.

A. We had been to Sweden for about a week. He was okay in Spain. As soon as we got on the plane back to Sweden, he was pushing me around, he was drinking heavily, he was acting in a way that I did not consider proper, especially if we were trying to work our differences out. A week after we got to Sweden, my brother was still with us in our home and he was out that night. And I wanted to bring up again with him that, you know, why are you drinking so much, let's work this -- let's talk. Axells problem is that he does not talk, he does not communicate. He holds everything inside him. And so after I explained to him, okay, we're going to give this another try, let's just, you know, let's start by talking to each other. We have to talk. We have to come to some kind of agreement. And he just looked at me and he said, I don't need to talk because I own you. And I said, well, I don't agree with that, basically. And he looked at me with a very strange glare in his eye and he said, do you want me to prove how I own you?

Q. And that's what to him at that point --

A. (Witness nodding head in the affirmative.)

Q. Okay. Did you report this to the counselor that you saw shortly after that?

A. No.

Q. Is there anything else that you didn't remember or didn't put in your November petition that you have now since thought about?

A. Several other times when he cut me off the bank account again. I'm used to him doing that. I should have gotten smart by now and had my own account, but marriage is a partnership, I suppose, for some people. Besides that, nothing really, just --

Q. Okay.

A. Nothing specific.

Q. Now, I want to go to 4 and ask you about some of the threats. On 4 you describe, as I understand it, three different types of threats. The threat to take the children to Sweden, the threat to take away your green card, and the threat to file a complaint against your friends. Are there any other threats that he made to you?

A. The ones I told you before. He always threatens with money.

Q. Okay. So money threats. Any other threats?

A. Well, if you consider saying I will destroy your life and everything that you've ever loved a threat, I guess I could call that a threat.

Q. Anything else?

A. Not that I recall right now.

Q. Okay. Now, you mentioned throughout your petition that Axel has threatened or talked about taking the children back to Sweden. Isn't it true that you and Axel have known for quite some time that as of the end of January of 196 his contract here expires, correct?

A. well, his contract always expires in January of the year. It's been totally renewed again and again and again. It's normal for us to know that.

Q. But you know that this time in 196 he has to go back to Sweden, correct?

A. I thought his contract expired in April. January is the first thing that you know, it's a date that's been thrown around, but I

Q. You knew at some point that the family was going to have to go back to Sweden?

A. No, not if we don't want to, not necessarily. He has always had the choice of staying locally employed.

Q. And how would he work here if he doesn't work for Tetra Pak?

A. oh, he could work for Tetra Pak as a local employee. They would cut his salary in half. Instead off 110,009 a year held make about 50 or 60, but that's a very decent salary, too.

Q. What do you base your belief that he could work here at Tetra Pak beyond this year? What do you base that on?

A. I'm sorry. I didn't understand your question.

Q. What do you base your belief that he could stay here at Tetra Pak for half the salary? What do you base that belief on?

A. oh, well, because he gets perks for being an international employee, like, you know, pension benefits, 100 percent covered insurance. We have a right to have the kids, education paid for until they're 21 if we want to take them to private school. All these kinds of things. A trip a year to Europe.

Q. Let me just stop you --

A. All this makes up for the difference in salary.

Q. And I understand why he would get less if he gave those things up.

A. Mm-hmm.

Q. But what makes you believe he could work here if he wanted at half salary, that somebody would let him do that?

A. oh, because he's been offered before. other people have done it and actually are doing it right now. He's been offered to work with Mickey in Chicago. Right now he's in Indianapolis, I think, for about 40 or $50,000 a year locally employed. You know, it's always been in the air. It's always like that with international employees for Tetra Pak. If they find a country that they like and want to stay at, the company doesn't object to him -- to them staying put. Of course they take away all the international benefits. For instance, when we married in Spain, he was not an international employee. He decided to stay there because we married, for a while.

Q. Okay. And do you happen to know this because this 6 is what Axel has described to you or --

A. Oh, yeah, and because of other people of the company.

Q. So you've investigated this through talking to other members of the company?

A. I haven't investigated it, but the conversation comes up every now and then at social events. It's always up in the air among international workers.

Q. Is it your plan to stay in the United States indefinitely?

A. Yes, it is. I want to pursue my Ph.D. here, if it's possible.

Q. Do you intend to return to either Spain or Sweden after that?

A. Not to Sweden, absolutely not, and to Spain on vacation.

Q. But you want to make the United States your permanent residence?

A. Yes, it's home to my children and it's becoming home to me also. And my English is very good. You didn't have to write that. Did you write it down? Oh, God.

Q. I need to caution you that anything you say has to be transcribed, so --

A. Well, that was a little late.

Q. Well, so you now know. If you feel the need to go off the record, you should ask and we will do that.

A. Oh, okay. I'm sorry.

Q. You have described in your petition what you believe to be a threat of abduction and I believe it's in part based on something that occurred in 189 when he went to Spain, and I think you were talking about the same incident we talked about a few minutes ago, correct?

A. Yes.

Q. When Axel took the children with him to Spain, correct?

A. Yes.

Q. Now, at the time he went to Spain, he went to your parent's place. Is that correct?

A. For a day.

Q. Okay.

A. Then he took off to the beach with some friends.

Q. Okay.

A. So he was actually in Seville I think overnight only.

Q. Was it your belief that he was going to stay there indefinitely?

A. I didn't know what he was going to do.

Q. But the two of you had had an argument and he went back to where your parents were, correct?

A. Mm-hmm.

Q. I need a yes or no.

A. Yes.

Q. In part because he wanted to talk to them about them intervening to try to help save the marriage, correct?

A. Yes.

Q. And did you ever have any trouble locating him or the children?

A. Yes, after they left Seville I couldn't get ahold of him or the children until I went there myself. I knew the town they were staying at by the beach but I didn't have an address or a phone number or anything like that.

Q. How did you know the town they were at?

A. Because while I was on my way -- I'm sorry. How did I know the town? Okay, I'm sorry. Because --

Q. I won't even need the names of the friends.

A. Because our friends in Spain usually vacation in that town although they stay in different apartments and stuff, whatever they can rent, depending the month they go. So we had talked -- several months before we had talked about vacationing together and nothing was concrete or determined or anything like that, so at the end we had not rented an apartment with them.

Q. I see.

A. So they were there on their own so I knew the town was there.

Q. I see. And how did you know that Axel would go there with the children?

A. Because my mother told me that he had gone there.

Q. okay.

A. You know, he got on a train and left, so --

Q. So he told your parents that that's where he was going?

A. Yeah.

Q. So during this entire time he was either with your parents or at a place where he had told them, correct?

A. Yeah.

Q. So at all times during this, your parents knew where he and the children were, correct?

A. Yes, they were there without my permission though.

Q. So what you're saying is he didn't get your permission to go to Spain?

A. No, he didn't get my permission to take my children with him to Spain. He could have gone to the end of the world for what I cared really, at that point.

Q. Other than this instance, what has Axel ever done to cause you to believe that he might abduct the children?

A. His threats about doing it. The fact that he emptied our bank accounts and took all our savings from -- and even cashed in my insurance policy this summer. So I know he's getting ready to leave. And that is very threatening to me because I have no means of following him.

Q. Now, he has said that he intends to return to Sweden, correct?

A. Well, he has said that to you, not to me.

Q. You're saying during this process was the first time that you learned that he intended --

A. Yes, that he had made up his mind to leave for Sweden. He was always threatening me with the fact that he could leave any time, but until now I didn't have a date, you know.

Q. And so when you talk about threats to abduct the children, he's talking about taking the children back to Sweden?

A. Mm-hmm, and he could very easily do that any time he wanted to.

Q. Okay. Now, you and Axel almost got a divorce last June of 195, correct?

A. Last -- what do you mean last June of 195?

Q. Well, in June of 195 the two of you --

A. oh, yes, we had been talking about divorce for the past two years, to be honest with you.

Q. And at that time you had worked out kind of a divorce and separation agreement, correct?

A. No, that's not correct.

Q. You don't recall typing up an agreement regarding --

A. Yes, I did.

Q. Okay.

A. But that didn't work out.

Q. I understand. MR. OUSKY: I need this marked as an exhibit, please. (Deposition Exhibit No. 2 marked for identification.) BY MR. OUSKY:

Q. Showing you what has been market as Exhibit 2, is that the typewritten note that we were just talking about? MS. WOLD: Can I look at that before you answer that question? MR. OUSKY: Here's an extra copy. MS. WOLD: Oh, okay.

A. You know, there's a paragraph here that I didn't write. BY MR. OUSKY:

Q. Which paragraph is that? Can you just tell me how it starts?

A. This has been tampered with.

Q. Okay. Tell me what paragraph is in there that shouldn't be in there.

A. Can I have a pen? It would be easier for me.

Q. I need to have you describe it for the record.

A. Yes, I will, once I mark it on my -- is this copy for me?

Q. I'm going to let you write on a copy.

A. Because I need -- this is not what I wrote, but I need to (examining document)..... okay.

Q. Excuse me. I am going to have you write on the actual Exhibit 2. And just so the record is clear, this Exhibit 2 appears to be the typewritten, but you think there are some alterations. I'm going to have you write on Exhibit 2 areas where it differs.

A. Okay. I did not write this first paragraph.

Q. And when you say first paragraph, you mean the paragraph that starts, "I cannot take" --

A. "I cannot," mm-hmm. I did not write that.

Q. So anything from the words "I cannot" all the way to "provider" should be deleted?

A. Yes, it's not true.

Q. Other than that paragraph --

A. Let me finish reading, because !'m checking. The second paragraph, ,I would like to see them", that has been tampered with. I don't recall my exact words because this was a while back, but I did say in this paragraph that we could talk about having custody of the children, holidays and vacations, and trying to make it as easy on them as possible.

Q. Regardless of the exact wording, I mean the gist of it was that you agreed that Axel would have primary custody?

A. No, I never agreed to that in my life. I never would.

Q. So you're saying everything else in here is accurate, but that was, what, reversed?

A. Yes.

Q. What did it actually say before?

A. I can't remember the exact words. I wish I had a copy of it, you know, the original note that I wrote. Maybe I can find it in the computer. I will certainly try.

Q. What do you believe that it said regarding custody?

A. It didn't say anything about custody because I was assuming that the children would stay with me, that he could visit them or we could make, you know, life as comfortable as possible for the children, something like that.

Q. And did you talk about where the children would reside?

A. I do that later on. ,I will look for an apartment and a job and as soon as I find them, I will leave." I will take my children, my clothes, my car, books. You know, it's so funny that the word children is missing there.

Q. But you had agreed to move into an apartment?

A. Yes, because obviously I cannot afford to pay $1400 a month for mortgage. The part about while I look for a job and an apartment and stuff like that, I said something else there, but I don't remember right now.

Q. Let me, because it appears that there's a number of things that you're going through, I'll ask you about some specific statements.

A. Yeah, please do.

Q. The statement on 2 that says, "Once I'm done with school I will try to be as close as possible to the children." Did you say that?

A. Yeah.

Q. "In the meantime, I have to agree to whatever conditions you set"?

A. Yeah, but you see, this has all been tampered with, because there was something about -- "If next year you decide to move back to Sweden, we will have to make this separation legal."

Q. If you say something, you have to say it clearly on the record.

A. Oh, I'm sorry. I'm sorry.

Q. But did you make the statement, "And in the meantime, I have to agree to whatever conditions you set"?

A. In the meantime, I was referring to in the meantime while I finish school, which was a year.

Q. I see.

A. And before that I said, you know, that we could share the house and the children and just live together as adults, although not legally married if he wanted that. You know, this has been tampered with. This is not the note I wrote. And I have no idea I would have to spend time reading this to make sure.

Q. And I won't ask you to go through it any further.

A. I will try to find a copy in the computer, at least my original copy.

Q. But the general understanding was that during the year while you were finishing school, the children would at least be primarily with Axel during that time, correct?

A. No.

Q. So what was going to happen different during that first year?

A. We were going to be in the house living as, you know, as friends, not as husband and wife, and that was my -- that's what I wanted, until his contract was over, because he could make his contract valid until next year.

Q. And you felt at that time that the two of you could safely live in that house together?

A. If we could just work out a way of communicating as adults and just, you know, just living separate but in the same house. We hardly spend any time with each other as it is anyway. He's always working.

Q. But at that point anyhow, you felt safe proposing something like that?

A. Yes, this was before September.

Q. And it was the September 2nd incident that caused you to change your mind?

A. Yes, I didn't think it was a very good idea to have him around anymore.

MR. OUSKY: Okay. I want to ask you to mark this as Exhibit 3. (Deposition Exhibit No. 3 marked for identification.)

BY MR. OUSKY:

Q. Showing you what has been marked as Exhibit 3. Is that the note that you gave to the child care provider for your daughter on December lst of 195?

A. Yes.

Q. So you instructed them not to -- or the provider

A. Yes.

Q. Okay. Has that been altered in any way to your knowledge?

A. I don't think so, but I could check with my baby-sitter because I'm sure she has the original. She was afraid of Axel coming and taking Rebecca.

Q. And you had told her that she ought not to do that, correct?

A. Yes, absolutely.

Q. Do you think he has less of a claim to these children than you do?

A. I'm sorry?

Q. Do you think he has less of a claim to these children than you do?

A. Yes.

Q. By virtue of the fact that he's male?

A. No, by virtue of the fact that he's spent an average of an hour of a day with them since they were born. He doesn't know the children. He doesn't know what they like or dislike. He cannot deal with feelings. He doesn't communicate with them. He's a good provider. That I will give him, but that's about all he's done for these children ever since they were born, provide for them.

Q. Is there anything good you can think of about Axel as a father?

A. When he feels like he's willing to play with the children or something like that, he does it. When he feels like he wants to give them a bath, he does it, but it's always when he feels like, not when the children need it or when the children feel like it. It's always his choice to do things with them.

Q. During, oh, since early December, you and Axel have been operating on sort of a shared custody arrangement where you alternate possession of the house, correct?

A. Shared is such an ugly word.

Q. I guess that's a matter of opinion. But in any event, the two of you have alternated possession of the house, correct?

A. Yes.

Q. Have any problems occurred regarding the care of the children during that time?

A. Yes, they have.

Q. Okay. Tell me what those problems have been?

A. Mostly with Alexander, my oldest child, and with Rebecca, my youngest.

Q. What problems have Alexander and --

A. Alexander is very withdrawn. He's very afraid all the time. He's very -- I don't know. He's just lost something.

Q. When did that start occurring?

A. That started after the first couple of weeks that we did this, and then I started to notice how he was more and more withdrawn and communicated less. More aggressive towards his younger brother, Stefan.

Q. Has that gotten better?

A. It's gotten worse.

Q. So it started in the first two weeks and it's continued to get worse?

A. Yeah, to the point where they can't say two words to each other without fighting or screaming.

Q. And what do you attribute that change to?

A. Fear, insecurity, not knowing where he's going to be tomorrow. Not knowing what's going to happen or what's happening? I mean, he does know what's happening, he's just old enough to deal with it, I suppose. He just turned 10 a couple of weeks ago. So he's a bright kid, he knows what's going on, but he doesn't know how to deal with it.

Q. Do you talk to him about it?

A. I don't want to talk too much about it because I don't think I should -- it's very hard for me to say things against their father to the children, because I don't want them to think of their father as a mean, nasty person or anything like that. So it's very hard for me to try to explain why this is going on without getting into details. I try to avoid it by all costs and I try to say, well, you know, these things happen sometimes. Adults don't want to be married anymore because they stop loving each other and they just have to go separate ways, so we talk -- in those terms we do talk about it sometimes.

Q. Has Alexander or any of the children expressed to you what they want?

A. Yes.

Q. What do they want?

A. They have literally told me that they love their daddy very much but that they want to be with me. Stefan usually says when I come on Wednesday nights, mom, it feels like daddy has been here for a month and you've been here you're here for a day, or something like that. Rebecca is acting up. She's our youngest. She's going to be 4 in a couple of weeks and she has nightmares constantly. She will not sleep alone when I'm in the house. I don't know if Axel sleeps with her or not, but she will not go away from my bed. And her hygiene concerns me because she's got very sensitive skin. She needs to be very washed very often, especially her private areas and he's not doing that.

Q. How do you know that?

A. Because she's sore and red and itchy and uncomfortable and every time I get home, that's the first thing she wants me to do is wash her.

Q. Now, you've indicated that the children expressed a preference that they wanted to spend time with you. Which of the children?

A. All three of them did. We were talking about it at dinner one time. I don't know how the conversation came up. I think I was asking them what daddy had cooked for dinner the day before -- no, if he had made Swedish meatballs, something like that, and that's how it came up.

Q. And what did you ask them?

A. I didn't exactly ask them. We were just talking and then Stefan asked me if papa was going back to Sweden and I said, well, I don't know for sure, you know, I suppose you can ask him that yourself. He seems like he is. And then Alexander said, what's going to happen to us? And I said, well, I don't know. I always tell them that it's not their father's hands or in my hands, it's in the judge's hands and then that way I suppose that, you know, they won't feel so bad about it, I guess. And after that they both looked at me and they said something, but what is going to happen to us? Are we all going to go back to Sweden? And I said, no, I'm not going to go back to Sweden. I'm going to stay here. Well, can we stay with you? And I said, yes, I want you to stay with me. Well -- and that's when Alexander and Stefan both said, well, we love papa very much but we want to stay here with you. And Rebecca of course always agrees with the majority. She has no own opinion. If she's angry with you one minute, she hates you and minute after she loves you, so it's not --

Q. Any other, other than what you've just described so far, any other problems that have arisen since early December?

A. Well, he's been late with my check.

Q. Okay.

A. Which is really not very nice to me.

Q. How late?

A. He was late a whole week, one of them.

Q. This week he didn't leave it at home. I'm hoping he'll leave it a the motel on Sunday. Sometimes he has done that.

Q. Any other problems?

A. He doesn't buy all the groceries that I ask him to. He doesn't do a very good job cleaning sometimes, although sometimes he has.

Q. Okay.

A. I don't know what he's cooking for the kids or anything like that, but they complain that they eat the same thing on and on again.

Q. Any other problems that you've been made aware of?

A. Not that I know of.

Q. Okay. Your attorney had raised in a letter to me the concern that there might be use of alcohol. I assume that came from something you had heard about?

A. Oh, bottles that I find in the house all the time, yes.

Q. Tell me what kind of bottles you find in the house all the time.

A. Vodka.

Q. How many vodka bottles have you found in the house?

A. So far, two. When I first saw them they were half full and now they're empty. And then there's also -- he's also been drinking because the bottles in the bar are pretty much down to nothing by now. I noticed that my cooking sherry was also pretty much gone.

Q. Okay. So you check before you left, or leave, how much is in the bottles and then you check when you got back?

A. I didn't do that the first week. I thought he was not going to get into this business again, that he was going to stick to his word, to our agreement. But after I saw that, he didn't because the first bottle he just left right on the kitchen counter for me to very clearly see. That's the way Axel is.

Q. In what way?

A. In the sense that here, you see, I can do this because I feel like it and you can't do anything about it, so there. Kindergarten syndrome I call it. Q- So he didn't make any effort to conceal that from you?

A. No, absolutely no effort. And the children also. I recall one day Rebecca telling me that papa had too many drinks. I don't remember exactly if it was before Christmas or the week after.

Q. What exactly did she say?

A. I was having a pop. I was putting ice in my glass and I was emptying a Coke in it and she said, are you going to have alcohol with that? And I said no, why? Because papa drinks too much alcohol. And I said, well, let's not talk about that.

Q. How old is Rebecca again?

A. Rebecca is almost 4. She will be 4 in a couple of weeks.

Q. Do you have any idea where she got the phrase papa drinks too much alcohol?

A. Maybe she got it from me, maybe she got it from the is boys, maybe she got 15 it herself. She's very bright you know. She's my daughter.

Q. Are there any other instances of domestic abuse or threats or anything other than what we've talked about here today?

A. Not that I recall right now.

MR. OUSKY: I have nothing further.

MS. WOLD: Could you provide me with a copy of Exhibit 3?

MR. OUSKY: Sure.

Read and sign. STATE OF MINNESOTA COUNTY OF HENNEPIN 3 I, Luann R. Jones, a Notary Public in and for the County of Hennepin, in the State of Minnesota, do hereby certify: That the witness in the foregoing deposition named was present at the time and place therein specified; That the said proceeding was taken before me as a Notary Public at the said time and place and was taken down in shorthand writing by me; That said proceeding was thereafter under my direction transcribed into computer~assisted transcription, and that the foregoing transcript constitutes a full, true and correct report of the proceedings which then and there took place; That I am a disinterested third person to the said action.

IN WITNESS THEREOF, I have affixed my official seal this day of January, 1996. 22 23 LU@R. JON@S Court Reporter