APPEARANCES
Linda L. Wold
6609 59th Avenue North Crystal, Minnesota 55428
appeared for the petitioner.
The petitioner appeared in person.
Court Reporter: Sandra K. Helget
Clerk: Pat Hansell
THE COURT: Please be seated.
Belia Jimenez Lorente and Axel Ture Rogert Johansson, File
No . DC218153. Counsel, would you note your appearance for the ·
record, please?
MS. WOLD: Yes. My name is Linda t. wold, attorney for petitioner.
THE COURT: Present with Ms. Lorente. Good morning.
MS. WOLD: Good morning.
THE PETITIONER: Morning.
THE COURT: This is -- don/t know if I read in the
file number, but I will. It's is DC218153. This matter was set on for trial
today on all issues.
As a matter of course, I should indicate that we received a
respondent's statement that
we filed on February the18, 97. It's a three-page document with
the title of the case but much more in letter form signed by
Mr. Johansson and dated February the 14, 97. It would appear
that it was mailed from Eslov, that's E-S-L -- I
only know how to
pronounce it as an umlaut -- O-V, Sweden. And to the effect -- it
is filed and part of the · record, but I believe it's to
the effect that he is aware · of the hearing today, and we'll
let the letter speak for · itself, other than this matter
was set for a 9 o'clock · trial; it's now approximately
quarter of 10; he does say that he will be unable to attend any
trial on February the 20 on the basis that he fears for his safety based
upon what occurred at the last hearing. In any event, we will ·
let the letter speak for itself. And, Counsel, do you wish to proceed
at this time?
MS. WOLD: Yes, I do, Your Honor. I would like to note for the record that I did not receive a copy of that. I don't need to have one, but I just would like to note for the record that that's something I did not receive.
THE COURT: All right. Well, we will get a copy for you. and I think maybe you should take a second to take a look at it. I don't know how it would affect you.
MS. WOLD: May I approach?
THE COURT: Yes, please.
MS. WOLD: Thank you.
THE COURT: Why don't we do this. Why don't you return to your seat. You can take that with you, make yourself comfortable.
MS. WOLD: Thank you.
THE COURT: Do we have some witnesses to swear in?
MS. WOLD: I will be calling -- I had intended only to call the petitioner as a witness, unless the Court feels that the child support officer could answer some questions of a more recent -- relative to · more -- the updated child support currently owed and in arrears.
THE COURT: All right. I think I would like to hear from Mr. Shackleford.
MS. WOLD: Your Honor, Mr. Shackleford is not present in the courtroom. I did not subpoena him.
THE COURT: I don't know that it would be necessary to subpoena him.
MS. WOLD: I had -- I fully expected that if Mr. Johansson had wanted to discuss the recommendations in the Court Services report that he would have subpoenaed Mr. Shackleford. Would --
THE COURT: Well, I think if this is proceeding by way of default it's not a question of what Mr. Johansson might or might not do; it's a question of whether the record supports whatever the Court may order. And normally by way of default, if the proper · evidence is established, then I can make a ruling. I · think it's less subject to attack if there is appropriate · support in the record. ·
MS. WOLD: Your Honor -- ·
THE COURT: Let's leave it at this. I think what we will do is I assume you had some exhibits.
MS. WOLD: Yes.
THE COURT: I think what we're going to do is we're going to -- I'm going to seal two exhibits. We will entitle them court exhibits. What I'm going to do is rather than marking them now I will mark them later and promise to connect up myself. I want them to be photocopied so that the originals can remain in the Court Services file, and that would be the April 1996, custody evaluation that was prepared at the behest of Referee Patrick Meade and performed by Gary D. Shackleford, a Family Court officer. We would also have an earlier March 96, CCDP evaluation from Mr. Steven Johnson, Family Court officer, to Judge Mary Davidson, which is a two-page document. The Shackleford document is eight pages. And I'm going to receive those on my own motion. Arguably it's a -- I believe it would be admissible at trial or certainly testimony on it, and I have reviewed the · documents and reviewed them some time ago as well. Now, with that in mind, it's your desire to call Ms. Lorente to the stand?
MS. WOLD: Yes, it is, Your Honor. I would like to offer that if I could make arrangements to have Mr. Shackleford present in the courtroom that I would make every effort to do that, if that would be · helpful to the Court.
THE COURT: Well, at this point it's -- I'm afraid it's too little too late. I think we will proceed accordingly.
MS. WOLD: Thank you, Your Honor.
THE COURT: Ms. Lorente, would you is step forward and be sworn? Would you raise your right hand? Why don't you just come up here, and if you'd raise your right hand. (Witness sworn.)
THE COURT: Would you please take a seat in the witness chair. Watch your step going up. And please proceed. · ·
BELIA JIMENEZ-LORENTE · having been duly sworn, was examined and testified as follows:
DIRECT EXAMINATION · BY MS. WOLD:
Q. Ms. Lorente, could you please state your full name, including your former names, please, for the record?
A. Belia Jimenez Lorente.
Q. Could you spell those, please?
A. B-E-L-I-A ' last name i-I-M-E-N-E-Z-hyphen-L-O-R-E-N-T-E.
Q. And please state your current address.
A. 6 5th Avenue North, Maple Grove, Minnesota 5369.
Q. Would you please state your Social Security number?
A. 45-86-9324.
MS. WOLD: And for the record again, my name is Linda L. Wold, attorney ID No. 252074, address is 609 th Avenue North, and I am the attorney for the petitioner.
BY MS. WOLD:
Q. Would you please state the respondent's name and address, please, for the record?
A. Axel Johan'sson.
Q. Do you know his address?
A. Johaness Vag or something like that in Eslov, Sweden. I don't know the exact address. Jonas Vag, I · think.
Q. Is the address Rudolf Jonassons Vag , Rudolf 17 spelled --
A. Yeah.
Q. -- R-U-D-O-L-F as in Frank, Jonassons, J-0-N-A-S~S-0-N-S --
A. Uh-huh.
Q. -- Vag , No.17 , Z1P Code S-24136, Eslov, E-S-L-O-V, Sweden?
A. Yeah.
Q. Do you know his Social Security number?
A. No.
Q. Is it likely that --
A. I could check it in documents, but !'m --
Q. The respondent's Social Security number is 044-86-6294?
A. That sounds like it.
THE COURT: I think a more moderate approach might be in order, Ms. Wold, and also save us time.
EXAMINATION · BY THE COURT: ·
Q. You've had an opportunity to review the petition that -- in fact, all of the paper work that your · lawyer filed on your behalf, correct
A. Yes, correct.
Q. And to the best of your knowledge, that information is accurate, especially insofar as numbers · are concerned and all personal data, if you will, such as dates of birth, dates of marriage, dates of separation', et cetera, correct?
A. Yes, I consider that correct, yes.
Q. All right. And also the names and ages and dates of birth of the children, correct? is
A. Yes.
Q. All right. And you would agree that there has been an irretrievable breakdown of the marriage, is that correct?
A. Yes.
Q. Do you have any doubt about that whatsoever'>
A. None whatsoever.
Q. All right. Now, you've had an opportunity to review the Court Services report, is that correct?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. All right. Why don't you tell me the names and ages of your children. ·
A. My children's names are Alexander Johansson, he just turned 11; Stefan Johansson, he just turned nine; and Rebecca Johansson, she just turned five
Q. Would you spell your daughter's name?
A. Rebecca? R-E
Q. Oh, Rebecca. I'm sorry. And she's age five?
A. Yeah.
Q. All right. Can you tell me in your own words what you feel is Alexander's preference for where he would like to live? Does he want to live with his father --
A. No.
Q. -- or you?
A. We have talked, all three children and myself, for the past year and a half much about this, and it's always been very clear to me that their preference is to stay with me, although they do always mention that they want to see their daddy.
Q. Okay. You've had an opportunity to review the custody study, correct?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. All right. And at No. it says that it appears that Alexander would like to live in the United States during the school year and to visit Sweden in the summer, correct?
A. Yes, correct.
Q. So I assume he's saying he would like to live with you and then visit his dad in the summer if he can.
A. Yes, that's correct.
Q. All right. And it would appear that Stefan was rather torn on where he wanted to live, correct?
A. That's correct, at first he was, yes.
Q. All right. And he's nine years old, correct?
A. Yeah.
Q. All right. And of course, Rebecca is five years old, and she did state a preference -- or she did indicate that she spends a majority of time with you, correct?
A. Correct.
Q. And I assume this was both before and after the separation.
A. That's correct.
Q. All right. And -- but she did say that she likes spending time with her dad on the.weekends and when he would come home after work, correct?
A. Correct.
Q. And she's indicated even at five years old that she wants to spend time with both of her parents?
A. That's correct.
Q. All right. You would agree that everyone, including Mr. Johansson. indicated that you were the primary caretaker --
A. Yes.
Q. -- of all of the children, correct?
A. Thats correct.
Q. And have you had an opportunity to discuss with your lawyer what it means to be a primary caretaker?
A. Yes, Your Honor.
Q. All right. I think it revolves around being the emotional and physical support and the primary support for the children, at least in their formative years, correct?
A. Correct.
Q. It means such things as taking the children to the doctor, preparing their meals, taking care of their physical health as well as their emotional health, spending significant time with them; basically as the name implies, being the primary caretaker. Would you agree that that's what you were and are to these children?
A. Yes, Your Honor.
Q. All right. And it was also -- it's your opinion that Mr. Johansson did work approximately eight to 10 hours per day?
A. Yes, Your Honor.
Q. And that you were a stay-at-home mom?
A. Most of the time, Your Honor.
Q. You did have some part-time work?
A. I studied part time.
Q. Okay.
A. I usually arrange my class schedules around my children's school --
Q. All right.
A. -- schedules so --
Q. You're aware in this case that both Mr. Johansson and yourself are requesting sole legal as well as sole physical custody of the children, is that correct?
A. Yes, Your Honor. is
Q. All right. You would agree that -- I'm now questioning you about the relationship that each of you has, Mr. Johansson and yourself, with each of your children and also the interaction and interrelationship and all of the family dynamics, how you all got along with one another, how all of the children interact with ach other and interact together when it was a unit, as well as with each individual parent individually, correct?
A. Yes, Your Honor, yes.
Q. That would include all the permutations and dynamic -- combinations of the social d
A. Yes, Your Honor.
Q. -- correct?
A. Correct.
Q. And it's Mr. Shackleford's determination that you all appear -- the children appear to have a healthy relationship with each of you and appears to get along very well with each of you, both in their play and their · work and also regarding your play and your work, correct?
A. Correct, Your Honor.
Q. And that would also be true of Mr. Johansson, correct?
A. Correct, Your Honor.
Q. Mr. Shackleford indicates that it appeared that your children have adjusted very well at home --
A. Yes.
Q. -- where you were living, and assume that's true today.
A. Yes, Your Honor.
Q. All right. And also at school?
A. Yes. Your Honor.
Q. And are they all doing well in school?
A. They're actually doing better than last year.
Q. All right. And how about in the community at large? Do they have friends
A. Yes.
Q. -- that they're interacting with?
A. They have many friends.
Q. All right. And I would assume that that's at · the school and also in the neighborhood.
A. Yes, Your Honor.
Q. All right. Are they involved in any sports?
A. Not this year.
Q. All right. Do they have any other interests that takes them out
A. Yes, Alexander
Q. -- to play with the other kids?
A. Well, they do play outside a lot. They have several friends who, because of my work schedule and school schedule, they meet over weekends and they stay over. We take turns. Parents do that.
Q. So there's sleepovers going on?
A. Yes.
Q. All right.
A. Lots of them. And my son, Alexander, is in the school orchestra. He plays the cello. And Stefan wants to play the violin as soon as it's his turn to do so.
Q. Okay, great. And is Rebecca in day care?
A. She's in a home day care.
Q. Okay.
A. She just completed a preschool program offered by -- by the Osseo school district, and she graduated actually last month.
Q. Okay.
A. And she did very well.
Q. And does she have friends that she can play with in the neighborhood?
A. Yes. She has too many friends.
Q. Okay. Now, they have been in -- Mr. Johansson is a native of Sweden, correct?
A. Correct, Your Honor.
Q. And what is your native country?
A. I'm from Spain, Your Honor.
Q. From Spain. Had you established citizenship in Sweden?
A. No, Your Honor.
Q. All right.
A. When we --
Q. You have maintained your --
A. Spanish.
Q. -- Spanish citizenship?
A. Yes, Your Honor.
Q. Have you applied for citizenship here in the United States?
A. No, but I will in May.
Q. All right. What is your status, your citizenship status, if you will? Are you a resident alien?
A. Legal resident, yes.
Q. All right. What is the status of your children, as far as you know?
A. The boys have the same status, and my daughter, Rebecca, is a citizen because she was born in Texas.
Q. Born in the United States?
A. Yeah, in Texas.
Q. Prior to the separation you had lived in Plymouth for approximately three years, correct?
A. Yes, Your Honor, that's correct.
Q. So as you sit here today, how many years total now have you lived in Plymouth --
A. Let's be --
Q. -- or that area,?
A. Plyinouth-Maple Grove, over four years now.
Q. All right. So four out of the five years of Rebeccals life have been spent in that area?
A. Yes, Your Honor.
Q. And it would appear that about half of the life of Stefan --
A. Yes.
Q. -- likewise, so Stefan -- when you moved here, Stefan was about four or five years old?
A. Yes, Your Honor.
Q. All right. How long were you in Texas?
A. Two years, Your Honor.
Q. All right. So Stefan pretty much has been in the United States probably since the time he can remember, correct?
A. Yes, since he was two years old.
Q. All right. And he's now eleven, so I presume that Alexander perhaps spent three or four years in Sweden.
A. Yes, Your Honor. All right.
Q.
A. No, I have to correct you on that. I'm sorry. Both my sons were born in Spain. We moved to Sweden when Alexander was two years old --
Q. All right.
A. -- and Stefan was three months old.
Q. So he spent then approximately two years in Sweden before you moved --
A. To the United States.
Q. -- to the United States? And was your first move down to Texas?
A. our first move was to Connecticut, where we spent six months.
Q. Okay.
A. That wasn't, you know, much time to do anything. Then we moved to Texas, spent two years there; and for the rest of the time we have been in Minnesota.
Q. All right. It was Mr. Shackleford's opinion that -- your opinion, and you tell me if I'm right or wrong here, that it was your desire to stay in the United States and to stay in the Plymouth area, is that correct?
A. That's correct, Your Honor.
Q. And is that your desire and is that your intention presently to do that?
A. Desire and intention, Your Honor.
Q. All right. And it would appear that you have -- at least you have indicated that you have a great is many friends in the area --
A. Very good, very many friends.
Q. -- at this point and you're integrated into the community out there as well as to the schools?
A. Yes, Your Honor.
Q. All right. Do you have help with friends, or how are you managing to, at least at this point, raise these children on your own?
A. well --
Q. Are you getting some help from friends or --
A. I do get a lot of help from friends. They come then. and do things with my children every now and have
Q. Do you trade off duties between --
A. Sometimes.
Q. -- mothers?
A. Sometimes we do. We do that in the old neighborhood, which is like five minutes away from ten minutes away from the one where we live in now. We had a · baby-sitting co-op, and we exchanged points for baby-sitting hours --
Q. Okay.
A. instead of paying each other.
Q. Sure.
A. We kind of --
Q. So you saved some money; at the same time your children are --
A. Yes.
Q. -- trustfully watched over?
A. Yes. And usually I arrange ~- my schedule is around their school schedule. When I go to class at night on Thursdays and every other Saturday, I have my neighbor's son baby-sitting for me.
Q. And what are you pursuing at -- college, is it?
A. Yes.
Q. You're pursuing a college degree?
A. degree in sociology.
Q. All right. What is your plan after obtaining that degree?
A. Well, I will go on and hopefully get my Ph.D., and I want to eventually teach college. I want to teach research.
Q. Okay. You read Mr. Shackleford's report. · Where does -- describe where Mr. Johansson stays in Sweden. is that a place where you also stayed prior to the move?
A. No, Your Honor. The town is the same, but according to the address, I think it's a little apartment in the downtown area of his town where he was raised, he was born and raised. It's a very small 20-inhabitant town.
Q. All right. And,I assume he has extended family there.
A. Not in the town. He has extended family all over the country, very much.
Q. All right.
A. He has his parents in the town, but they are almost 80 and almost 90 and very ill, as I understand.
Q. All right. Does he have any relatives in that particular town?
A. Besides his parent he has a brother who is married and has four children, teenagers, and the rest of the siblings live -- live in different towns, you know, one to six hours driving distance --
Q. All right.
A. -- because --
Q. All right. So you're aware that Mr. Shackleford was of the opinion that Mr. Johansson · could offer more stability to the children in Sweden --
A. I --
Q. -- at least regarding the extended family situation and the ability perhaps to offer respite?
A. Well, Your Honor, I will be candid with you, and I will tell you that Mr. Shackleford probably wrote down what my almost ex-husband told him. Of course, it sounds very well to say I have seven -- or seven brothers and sisters, they're all married, they all have kids. He didn't mention that, you know, he's the youngest and he's 43 and his siblings are in their 50's and their children are in their 20's, which, of course, he, you know, maybe forgot.
Q. All right. So what you're telling me is while the opportunity for respite may be there, the heart for it --
A. Yeah.
Q. -- may not be, correct?
A. I would put it that way, yes, Your Honor.
Q. All right. But the -- so one of -- you would agree though that one of the disadvantages, of course, of · the children growing up here is they certainly don't have as ready access to their relatives and extended family as if they lived in perhaps Spain or Sweden, correct?
A. I would say Spain. Of course, I have very · extended family there. My children have friends, and they actually have three grandmothers in this country. They're adopted, but I have to say that they feel like my mothers --
Q. All right.
A. -- a lot of times, so we don't lack friendships, very strong ones for that matter. They're not alone.
Q. All right.
A. We're not alone, I should say.
Q. All right. So you have some very, very good friends in this country?
A. Yes, Your Honor.
Q. All right. How are you doing maintaining the homestead now?
A. Newspaper coupons. It's hard because I do make enough money to get along, but there's not a lot of extra money, obviously. I'm always short every month, but I have asked for staffer loans, which I am helping myself with to pay the rent and all these other things.
Q. You've been -- what have you been doing? What · loans?
A. I asked -- staffer loans for school. I am allowed to take out money.
Q. I see.
A. Which I should, you know, start to pay back after I graduate.
Q. okay.
A. And with this money, since I'm on almost a full scholarship, didn't need it to pay for my tuition or books, but I am using it to support my children and myself.
Q. I see. How much do you think you're in debt right now as a result of all of this?
A. About maybe $17,000 in staffer loans.
Q. All right. Do you foresee any difficulty in attaining citizenship or obtaining permanent status in this country?
A. No, Your Honor. I'm a model citizen. I work. I study. I care for my kids. I'm involved in my community and speak English.
Q. Okay. That would seem to be the Game as most of us. I was actually asking a more basic question.
A. Yes.
Q. That you don't foresee difficulties -- your legal status as a resident, how could your residency · status be lost at this point?
A. I -- unless I broke the law with a --
Q. I see.
A. -- horrible crime.
Q. I understand. So its your opinion that you can stay here at this point legally, you can also work' over here legally --
A. oh, yes.
Q. -- pay taxes, et cetera, et cetera?
A. Yes, especially paying taxes.
Q. And absent a deportation proceeding, your expectation is that -- No1. , that that won't occur and, No2. , that you will be obtaining work here, correct?
A. Correct, Your Honor.
Q. Do you have the opportunity at this point with your legal status to work?
A. Yes, Your Honor. The only thing that I cannot do as American is to vote.
Q. All right.
A. And that's one of the reasons why I will apply for citizenship in May.
Q. SO it's your opinion All right on that if all · goes well it is your intent to obtain citizenship and the same for your children, of course, that would be Alexander and Stefan, Rebecca already being a citizen, · correct?
A. Yes, Your Honor, correct.
Q. As far as you know, at least at this point, at least regarding yourself, there's no mental or physical · problems that you're encountering other than the usual ones that come with age and experience or whatever?
A. Age, well, yes, of course. I don't have any -
Q. Maybe you have a few years to go but -- I guess what I'm saying is basically you're healthy and your children are healthy?
A. Yes, Your Honor, we are.
Q. Are they getting health care?
A. They don't have insurance. My husband canceled his insurance before he left the country, so I do -- I am -- I have an appointment to take them to their yearly physical, but I will have to pay for it myself.
Q. All right. I don't know what the status is of welfare or not. Have you consulted with any of those people --
A. There is such a -
Q. -- regarding --
A. Yes, Minnesota Care is a possibility that I am looking into. They have preventive care, and that's what i'm interested in.
Q. All right. I would assume you -- are you a · student at the U?
A. No, at Augsburg College.
Q. All right. I would assume Augsburg probably has a clinic, don't they?
A. Yes, they do, Your Honor.
Q. I would assume as a student that you have some benefits there.
A. They are very bad benefits, and my children would not qualify.
Q. I see.
A. I do have insurance for myself.
Q. I'm saying regarding -- you do have insurance for yourself?
A. Through my employment, yes, but not for the children.
Q. All right. What would it cost'you to get insurance for the children?
A. Through my employment
Q. Yes.
A. -- it is close to $300 a month, but they don't cover any dental or preventive care, so it's not -- it's not a very good deal'.
Q. All right. You're not having any mental health problems either, is that correct?
A. Not that I know of, Your Honor.
Q. All right. Are you presently seeing a counselor, psychiatrist or psychologist?
A. Most of my friends are, but I'm not seeing them officially.
Q. All right. Would the same, in your opinion, be true of Mr. Johansson?
A. I think he has mental problems.
Q. Pardon me?
A. But then that's my opinion.
Q. I understand that. I think based upon that 15 there was an evaluation done, the results of which indicated that there appears to be no issues on either side of your respective mental and physical health that would cause difficulty in being an effective parent, would you agree with that?
A. Yes, I would agree.
Q. All right. Do the children have a particular religion that they have been practicing or
A. Yes, Your Honor, the Christians.
Q. All right. Is there a particular Christian sect that
A. Presbyterian.
Q. Presbyterian, okay. Have they been doing that for a long time or what's the --
A. No. I was born and raised Catholic and --
Q. okay.
A. It took me a while to find a Church which I liked in the United States. and it turned out to be a Presbyterian church.
Q. okay.
A. And so we are joining it officially on Sunday, but we have been attending for the past year and a half or so.
Q. Okay. Is there any -- are there any particular cultural issues that you see since -- I suppose it's a is tough question. Do you feel like the children -- do the children identify with being Swedish and like Swedish foods and culture and things such as that or do you find them being particularly Spanish? mean I don't know.
A. like to think so, but they are not. They are Americans, I'm afraid.
Q. All right.
A. We do keep,traditions from all three countries at home. We have Christmas dinners which are either Swedish or Spanish. If it's not Christmas Eve, it's Christmas Day. I have always been a lover of culture, so 3 this is very important to me, and they -- they realize that, the children, and it's important for them, too. It gives them identity. All three cultures do. But if you ask them, they will consider themselves American --
Q. okay.
A. -- without much doubt.
Q. All right. Now, you speak with a slight accent, not very much of one. Do I assume the · children ~- Alexander, Stefan and Rebecca ~- all are speaking pretty much English without an accent?
A. Yes. Alexander does have a little accent every now and then, my oldest one, but that's because he has a physical problem in his mouth and --
Q. okay.
A. -- he can't pronounce letters.
Q. Tell me about that. Does he have --
A. No, he was born very premature, and his muscles were very late developing, so it's been dragging. He's -- he went to speech therapy for a couple of years.
Q. Okay.
A. And if you don't -- if you don't have a special ear, you cannot detect. I do because !'m his mother but ~~
Q. Okay. So any accent that he has is related to a speech defect -- Uh-huh.
A.
Q. -- that's resolving itself and not --
A. Yeah. it will eventually disappear.
Q. -- due to any cultural influence --
A. No.
Q. -- or --
A. No.
Q. Just historical learning?
A. They speak Spanish with an American accent and Swedish with an American accent, but they don't have any peculiar --
Q. Are they multilingual?
A. They are more bilingual than multilingual.
Q. Do they speak
A. My oldest son
Q. Let me -- okay. I'm sorry.
A. I'm sorry.
Q. That's all right. So they speak Spanish and English?
A. Yes, Your Honor.
Q. All right. Do they speak Swedish?
A. My oldest son speaks some and understands some, but they don't have any chances of practicing Swedish so --
Q. All right. Let's talk about the forms of discipline. It appears that each of your -- you have disciplined the children in the past, correct?
A. Correct, Your Honor.
Q. All right. What about physical discipline? · And by that I mean spanking, hitting.
A. I would spank my children when they were younger, the boys especially. Rebecca was always easy to talk to, but I have spanked my children when they were · younger.
Q. All right.
A. Not any more because it hurts me more than it hurts them, so now I take the Nintendo away and that works pretty well.
Q. So it's time-outs?
A. Yes, the past three years or so it's been mostly time-outs, removal of privileges, having them do chores which are not usually their chores to do, like, you know, fold the washer or -- the clothing or things like that.
Q. All right. How do you plan to support the children? Let's just -- assuming, arguendo, Mr. Johansson is not being much help in the support department right now, I presume. Have you received anything from him at all?
A. No, Your Honor, and I don't expect to either, but that's in my plan so ·
Q. All right. How do you plan to get through all this? Like, for example, when are you going to be through your undergrade degree
A. Let's see. I will graduate in May, and for my Ph.D. I will take a couple of years off and wait until the children are older. In the mean --
Q. Do you have a job in mind that's going to help · You to support your family?
A. Well, the job I have right now is quite reasonable. It's -- .
Q. What is your job right now?
A. I am a lead editor and coordinator for the Spanish departments of a technical translating firm.
Q. All right.
A. So I basically edit and coordinate technical translations.
Q. Are you going to be able to do that on a full-time basis shortly?
A. Yes, Your Honor.
Q. All right.
A. I almost am now. I work about hours a week.
Q. How much are you bringing in a month net?
A. About 2100 hundred dollars. I'm paid on hourly basis, so it depends on how much I work. If I can get extra work done over the weekends, I do that. if I can't get my full hours in I just -- I can.
Q. So it's your opinion that you're going to be able to support your children, assuming you get the · children, and it's your understanding that you're going to be able to continue to support your children and things should be getting better, if you will'>
A. Yes, Your Honor. I have been doing that for · the past year almost and there hasn't been much of a problem.
Q. All right. Assuming that things resolve themselves, if you will, in Sweden -- and perhaps we just assume for a second that Mr. Johansson would come up on his arrearages and get some support and he appears to be cooperating and there would be no intent to kidnap the children or otherwise put them in peril or your relationship with them. I presume you would have no opposition to the children, when age appropriate, visiting their father in Sweden?
A. I -- I will be again candid with you, Your Honor, and tell you that I don't assume with my children because they are all I have. Assumptions are no good to me.
Q. Well --
A. So if --
Q. I guess I'm asking you already to assume · that --
A. Okay.
Q. Let's assume some time has passed from the · divorce, the animosity has dissipated, both between yourselves and perhaps between Mr. Johansson and his feelings for this Court or American justice, et cetera, and that he otherwise appears to be mentally and · physically healthy and in desire of seeing his children; and if the Court so orders, would you have any opposition at that point? Once the court orders visitation, would you in any way interfere with the visitation --
A. No, Your Honor.
Q. -- rights of Mr. Johansson? is
A. Never, I would never do that, no. My children need their father too so --
Q. All right. Is there some way that you're going to be able, perhaps where Alexander speaks Swedish -- does he also speak Spanish?
A. Yes, Your Honor.
Q. All right. Is there some way if -- assuming he doesn't get back to Sweden in the distant future, is there some way of continuing that particular language and culture with Alexander that --
A. Well, the culture itself wouldn't be hard 3 because we do that at home. We have Pippi Longstocking · movies and books and all that kind of stuff. The · language would be a little harder. I do speak fluent · Swedish, so I would be help -- able to help him and the · other children. Obviously, if we do find eventually, you know, some classes or something that I can attend to, but right now their extracurricular activities are very limited because of money and --
Q. Money.
A. -- time obviously so --
Q. All right. So --
A. But if in the future it would be possible, I would be certainly delighted with the idea.
Q. All right. How many languages do you speak, Ms. Lorente?
A. Fluently three. I'm knowledgeable in six.
Q. Okay, all right. So assuming the passage of time, if you will, and let's say some supp ort starts coming and Mr. Johansson loses his apparent anger with you and also with me, I guess, you would allow contact and attempt to foster that contact between your children and their father?
A. Yes, Your Honor.
THE COURT: All right. Ms. Wold, do you have any further questions regarding the custody issue? ·
MS. WOLD: Yes, Your Honor, I do. I have an exhibit that I would like to -
THE COURT: Let's bring all the · exhibits up, and we will just get them in all at once.
MS. WOLD: Okay.
THE COURT: Want to just hand them to me?
MS. WOLD: They've been marked.
THE COURT: All right.
MS. WOLD: And it would be -- I'll have to check.
THE COURT: Why don't you just --
MS. WOLD: Exhibit No. . (Exhibit offered.)
THE COURT: How does this relate to custody at this point?
MS. WOLD: Okay. This was the basis of -- the foundation for requesting supervised visitation, Your Honor, and
THE COURT: All right. So first of all you want to offer Exhibit ,1 which is the United States Department of State, Bureau of Counselor Affairs, it's entitled "International Parental Child Abduction." It's Department of State publication 210, Bureau of 3 Counselor Affairs, which was revised in January of 95, · which is basically a study of child abduction. kidnapping · across -- well, across the borders of the United States · and other countries, correct?
MS. WOLD: Correct.
THE COURT: As well as what would appear to be a helpful guide rather than the law itself regarding child abduction and all aspects of family law · in the international setting, correct?
MS. WOLD: Correct.
THE COURT: All right.
MS. WOLD: Correct.
THE COURT: Very well, received. (Exhibit received in evidence.)
MS. WOLD: I'd like to approach the witness if I might, Your Honor.
THE COURT: You may.
DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MS. WOLD:
Q. And I'd like to show you this Exhibit No. , if I might.
THE COURT: Here, I might have some of that.
MS. WOLD: They're all 40
THE COURT: All right. I don't know · that she needs to answer any questions with that, unless · she's a lawyer. ·
BY MS. WOLD:
Q. Okay. I would like to ask you if the respondent has ever threatened to abduct the children.
A. Yes, he has.
Q. When was that threat last made?
A. That was before he left, several times.
Q. What was the threat?
A. He threatened me with taking the children out of the country.
Q. Has he ever abducted the children in the past?
A. He did before in 89.
Q. What --
THE COURT: In what?
THE WITNESS: .
BY MS. WOLD:
Q. What were the circumstances of that particular
A. At the time we were living living in Sweden, and we had -- have some problems, and we were taking a trip to Spain. We were going to take a trip to Spain, but he changed his mind and took my ticket and the children with him alone and left me in Sweden with no money and no ticket' and no anything so --
Q. And you considered that an abduction of your 3 children?
A. Yes. He didnft have my permission to take the · children, and I was supposed to go with them, too.
Q. Okay. Were there any witnesses to that -~ or that had direct knowledge that he had taken the children?
A. Yes, my family and his family.
Q. I would direct your attention to Exhibit No. . That's an affidavit of the petitioner's sister and brother-in-law.
THE COURT: Why don't you just offer those.
MS. WOLD: Okay. (Exhibit offered.)
THE COURT: Want to hand them to me?
MS. WOLD: Yes. Sorry, Your Honor.
THE COURT: That's all right. What numbers were they again?
MS. WOLD: No. .
THE COURT: Here, that's in evidence already.
BY MS. WOLD:
Q. And this document is in the Spanish language, is that correct?
A. Yes, correct.
THE COURT: All right. This is a three-page document in Spanish. It's photocopied. It would appear to have the official seal of a notary in -- · I'd assume Seville, Spain, and it also has a -- has a translation which is a three-page document from the Betmar Languages. It's dated January th. I should say that it's certified by Betmar Languages. I don't know · that that means anything. It would appear that this is certified and notarized under the Hague Convention of 1 October Sth, 61, as well as to be certified, notarized and sealed.
MS. WOLD: Thank you, Your Honor.
THE COURT: All right, received. is
(Exhibit received in evidence.) BY MS. WOLD:
Q. So this affidavit confirms or corroborates what you've indicated about the children having been abducted from you, correct?
A. That's correct.
Q. Does the respondent's disregard for the laws of the United States have any impact on why you would continue to desire supervised visitation?
A. At this stage, yes.
Q. Do you believe that he would abduct -- that the respondent would abduct the children no matter what any law says?
A. At this stage, yes.
MS. WOLD: I have no further · questions on the custody issue.
THE COURT: All right. Hold on here for a second.
THE COURT: Pat, these have been · received into evidence. By the way, I think we will make these -~ the custody study Exhibit A, Court Exhibit A; the CCDP of Johnson's from March th Court Exhibit B. Those are received into evidence. (Court Exhibits A. and B marked for identification and received in evidence.) Do you have Mr. Johansson's letter?
MS. WOLD: Yes, the one that he just recently submitted.
THE COURT: Thank you. Even though this is filed and is an official part of the District Court record, I will label this Court Exhibit C. (Court Exhibit C marked for identification and received in evidence.)
THE COURT: We have A, B, C.
THE CLERK: Yes.
THE COURT: And I assume -- ·
THE CLERK: And . ·
THE COURT: -- and are made an official part of the record. All right. Anything else regarding the marriage? I think we have questions on irretrievable breakdown, that she accepts and adopts the petition. BY MS. WOLD:
Q. Have you or the respondent commenced a separate proceeding for dissolution in this state or in any other state?
A. No.
Q. And you have alleged that there's been an irretrievable breakdown of your marriage, is that correct?
A. That's correct.
Q. Is there any possibility of reconciliation?
A. No.
Q. Are either you or the respondent in any branch of the military service?
A. No.
THE COURT: I think I've heard enough. I don't know that we need to do anything else.
MS. WOLD: Your Honor, would you need information on child support or child care costs?
THE COURT: We will get to that in a second. 3You may step down. Thank you. I'm going to order a default judgment. Sole · legal and physical custody of each of the children will be with petitioner. will be making various findings, but sufficient to say I am going against the custody · evaluation, which I find accurate on the facts for the most part, inaccurate on what it recommends. I don't see how it could recommend that custody be with Mr. Johansson where Ms. Lorente has been the primary caretaker in all other respects. The facts are equal. find the evidence clearly contrary where -- I need -- I find this inaccurate with respect to what offers the children more -- more stability. In my opinion these children have. for the predominant part of their lives to date, been residents of the United States. The primary care has been with the mother. It would appear that the only ground upon which Mr. Shackleford made the opinion that Mr. Johansson would offer more stability and a life-style similar to what the children are accustomed to in Sweden, well, that's an inaccurate statement of fact. For Rebecca there's been no life-style in Sweden. She may have visited there, but 4 I don't know that that exists. And again, the · predominant -- predominantly these kids have lived in the United States and are socializing in, if you will, part of our culture now, and it would appear that the very · recommendations on which this is supported are contrary to the evidence.
Mr. Johansson has not supported his children with one dime, notwithstanding his -- his sufficient salary to do so. It is apparent from reading -- from listening to Mr. Johansson in earlier hearings, as well as reviewing the letter which he's written as well as other exhibits in evidence, that Mr. Johansson is irresponsible where the children are concerned, that he appears to be consumed with anger to the @- to -- which is affecting is these children and not in their best interests. He exhibits selfishness to an extraordinary degree where he would make -- I'm just -- I'm just being approximate now with my findings of fact. I expect those to be reduced to writing, and appropriately an order will be signed, but that with the amount of money he's making and not one nickel for his children for this amount of time is unconscionable and it shows an immaturity and an anger -- anger at his soon-to-be-ex-wife and clearly against the best interests of his children. It would also appear that in his mind he's already lost his children and is not going to cooperate · with the Court or anyone else in an attempt to foster · that relationship. Thus, under all the factors that are set out in · the child custody status and based upon the evidence deduced at the hearing and all the files, records and proceedings herein, legal and physical custody is appropriately and solely with Ms. Lorente. At this point · only supervised visitation in the United States at the Department of Court Services with a court services worker being present at all times until such time the Court is assured that kidnapping or other violation of law will not occur. I believe Mr. Johansson is out of control, emotionally and intellectually, that he would not act in the best interests of his children but only of himself, and of course kidnapping is perhaps one of those pure forms of selfishness. To deprive these children of motherly love, given the facts of this case, would be a miscarriage of justice, so it is appropriate that there only be supervised visitation and that he is a danger to kidnap the children based upon what I have reviewed. All right. We will set guideline support. I don't know what our enforce ment potential is in these circumstances. I believe we already had an existing order that did meet the guidelines. That would · continue. This Court will sign any reasonable order · that's consistent with the law of this state. the United · States, and any international treaties, treaties with · Sweden or any other country where Mr. Johansson might be found so that child support can be collected in any legal manner possible, and, Ms. Wold, it falls upon you. Perhaps you want to consult with Court Services to see · that that takes place.
MS. WOLD: Sure.
THE COURT: Do we have anything else to discuss regarding custody or child support?
MS. WOLD: No, Your Honor, I donft believe so.
THE COURT: All right. Itm going to return the balance of your exhibits, which were not received.
MS. WOLD: May I approach?
THE COURT: You may.
THE COURT: Ms. Lorente, good luck. I hope everything works out for you and the children.
THE PETITIONER: Thank you, Your Honor.
THE COURT: And I hope you start getting some money from him. Perhaps with the passage of time these things will iron themselves out. That's my · hope. When Mr. Johansson comes to his senses, and I hope that he does, perhaps you will get some support and the children can more naturally have a relationship with · their father, okay?
THE PETITIONER: Thank you.
THE COURT: But for the time being I think it's got to be this way. I need to return, I'm sorry, the rest of the exhibits to you. I kept some.
THE REPORTER: I think thereis another one here, Judge.
THE COURT: That's mine.
THE REPORTER: This brown one, underneath.
THE COURT: Yes. I need and . What did I do with --
THE CLERK: They are here.
THE COURT: You're getting your exercise this morning.
MS. WOLD: Sorry if I've confused you, Your Honor.
THE COURT: That's all right. You haven't confused me. I've confused myself. Thanks.
MS. WOLD: Thank you, Your Honor.
THE COURT: All right. Good luck now.
MS. WOLD: Thank you.
THE COURT: Prepare the findings, · proposed.
MS. WOLD: Yes.
THE COURT: I'd like them consistent with -- it's not really that complicated.
MS. WOLD: I will do
THE COURT: It may sound like it is, but I suggest that if you base it literally on what I've discussed, the fact that I've gone through the factors, in my opinion the factors favor sole legal and physical custody in mother -- based upon the factors and my findings regarding Mr. Shackleford's recommendations, clearly the evidence is contrary that was produced. That's just extremely apparent from Mr. Johansson's conduct that I've made the appropriate decisions and it is in the best interests of the children at this time. There's almost every indication that they will have all of the cultures in their household. The same is not true with Mr. Johansson. The only negative that I can see is that the children don't have extended family, but even any of us that move around the United States don't necessarily have 5 extended family in the same geographical city, and I · think what we're talking about when you're raising children is that kind of respite care that a family can offer. So in that absence I don't see that that's an · overwhelming factor. All of the other factors are clearly either neutral or in favor of Ms. Lorente, and in the balance the best interests of the children is for custody with her. I'm ignoring any alcohol or domestic issues, abuse issues where there are -- there are some allegations going back and forth. I don't find that there is sufficient evidence such that they preponderate to enter into my decision-making with respect to those. Likewise, I don't see any discipline issues that make either of these parents unfit in terms of the type of discipline and how the children are being raised, so I think in balance it comes down to the primary caretaker, the very existence of the relationship as it stands where Mr. Johansson will not come back into this country, where his letters indicate that he would, that there is a danger of kidnap, where it's clear he would intervene in any visitation rights Ms. Lorente might have. His conduct and actions are inconsistent with the best interests of the children and indicate immaturity and selfishness, which makes him unfit at this stage of his · life. His letters almost appear to be, if you'll excuse the expression, posse comitatus-like in their · disdain for the court system and for the way he thinks he's been treated, and in my opinion he's indicated that he will not follow court order since I have found him in contempt in the past, and thus can't trust him with · visitation or visitation in Sweden at this time. it takes people of good faith and of their word for the court to place their trust in them to make sure that the court orders are followed. So again, I'm just trying to give you a basic outline of why my findings are the way they are, and it's is my hope that Mr. -- Mr. Johansson appears to be a good person and a hard-working person and otherwise a good parent. I think he's frustrated by this situation, and I don't blame him for being such, but he's made some clear choices here that he has to live with at this point, and there is nothing I can do about those. It is my hope that the children will have a relationship with their father, and I think it's essential to a healthy upbringing that they do so, and it's my hope that that occurs. All right?
MS. WOLD: Your Honor, I will prepare the proposed findings and submit them to you. ·
THE COURT: Yes. You might just want to follow what we have here in some of my thinking on the subject as well as the court exhibits. If you want, what · Jem going to do is -- I'm going to -- if you'd stay around for a few minutes I'm going to photocopy off a couple of these exhibits. I'm going to return some of the originals to you on your promise to reconnect them up · with the file so that you can use them for preparation of your order. I'm not going to copy Exhibits and at this point. I'll just give them back to you, and then you can give them back to us. I will copy off the letter of Mr. Johansson as well as the various studies ~- in other words, Exhibit A, B and C -- and give you a copy of them, okay? I have court ordered those under seal. In other words, they are an exhibit. They are an exhibit in the District Court file, but there is no need for that to be public information, not that there is anything extraordinarily, if you will, enlightening or of interest to the public but only that it is some priva+-^ information here and there regarding the private lives, and I think data privacy probably requires it also. All right?
MS. WOLD: Okay. Thank you, Your Honor. 5
THE COURT: Thanks. ·
MS. WOLD: For your patience also. ·
THE COURT: If there is a need to unseal it at some future time, it's not a generic forever · order. I always have to take motions in light of existing circumstances. It's merely for the present there's no need to do this. It's a default judgment. I'm just trying to keep them from being in the regular · District Court file. We have always had access to them in the Court Services file, and that doesn't change. All right?
MS. WOLD: Thank you, Your Honor.
THE COURT: Thanks.
THE PETITIONER: Thank you, Your Honor.
THE COURT: Good luck now.
THE PETITIONER: Thank you. 1
(Concluded at 10:59 a.m.)
REPORTER CERTIFICATE ·
I, Sandra K. Helget, do hereby certify that the above and foregoing 54 pages of typewritten material constitute a full, true and correct transcript of the · stenographic notes taken by me at the time and place specified.
Dated: May 25, 1997.
Sandra Helget
Court Reporter